Ask HN: Should I quit for 6 months?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20307754

by yathern • 7 years ago

25 40 7 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Sorry for the typical, unoriginal advice thread.

BACKSTORY:

25 years old. Not married. I've spent the last 3 years working at a FAANG company - more or less right out of college. For the first 2.5 years I lived at home with my parents. As such, I've saved quite a bit. Now I'm living in the city. With recent changes to my team goals and product, I find myself extremely unfulfilled as of late. I now regularly engage in fantasies of quitting, and my gut tells me it's the right call.

I've always had personal projects I work on. Mostly ones that are intended to make a tiny bit of passive income. No one-hit wonders. But none of them have seen the light of day. I lose interest half way through. In my time off, I would like to finish one of them.

I'm somewhat risk averse, so I would only allow myself to go 6 months before trying to find another job (provided I can't come up with any solo income in that time). I hold no belief that I'll make a profitable project being solo. I don't fantasize about being a startup founder who makes millions. I just want some time to work on projects I enjoy. Maybe make some money off them. Probably not.

USEFUL INFO:

* Rent + everything else = ~4k a month. I can get that lower.

* I have 275k in savings. Not counting 401k.

* 6mo would cost about 25k.

* My lease is up for renew in 6mo, which is a nice coincidence.

* Got promoted in the last 6 months. This may help job prospects in the future - companies may more easily hire me at that level, than if I quit without getting promoted.

RISKS:

1) Sucking it up and working at this company the next 8 years would result in a very lucrative career, and that's a large opportunity cost.

2) Getting a job 6 months from now may not be as easy as I pretend it is. (What if the economy explodes!)

3) I may find that I have motivation for personal projects either, and live 6 months in a quiet depression in my underwear.

ALTERNATIVES:

1) I suck it up and do my job. People would love this job. It's cushy and it pays very well. Just do it for 5 more years and then consider this stuff.

2) Change teams at work. I imagine this might be only a mitigation, but maybe it would make things better.

3) Talk to my manager about working on stuff that I want to. I love to create and experiment. I know our problem area well now. I have things I want to create that would be valuable to the company that I would be passionate about. Would it be wise to ask for a 3 month trial of working on my own solo thing within the company? I would like that.

So what do you think? Should I do it?

thanatos519• 7 years ago

DO IT

duxup• 7 years ago

What are you going to DO for 6 months?

Do you feel like those projects will really make you feel fulfilled?

That's really the only question here right?

ytNumbers• 7 years ago

What are you waiting for? Go for it!!

zlast• 7 years ago

It sounds like a break from work life would be immensely helpful. Here's another alternative that I'd recommend.

You didn't mention taking any breaks / vacation during this period. Take a week or two off and see how you feel. If you feel you should go longer, do it. I'd strongly advise against going right into a 6 month break.

yathern4• 7 years ago

Good advice! However, I just got back from a week long vacation and still felt this way... I was hoping it was burnout, and that a vacation would do me well. But it's more a general unmotivation to keep working on this project.

kohanz• 7 years ago

A week is rarely enough time to expect a real mindset or perspective change, especially if you're not setting out with intent to do so. I'm not saying you shouldn't quit, but if you wanted to give yourself a chance to avoid burnout, perhaps discuss the possibility of a longer sabbatical with your employer. As someone who's spent some time on full-time side-projects, full-time employment, and in-between, the grass isn't always greener.

taurath2• 7 years ago

If its around the project, then change projects if you can!

sarcasmatwork• 7 years ago

If you have $275K in savings, I assume you have no debt? No loans, car payment etc?

Always having passive income is good. Side projects will keep you busy and bring in money. What happens in 6 months, or 1 year and you cant get a job? (worst case). There is a ~10% fee for cashing out 401k early fyi.

Take a long vacation, and come back and grind for a year or more then consider this stuff again. As someone that has 12 years on you, I wish I would have saved more and lived less fruitful so I can travel more now. It's easier to be in the grind now, then later. Why pass up good money/good job? My $0.02. Good luck in whatever you decide.

yathern4• 7 years ago

Went to a cheap school and paid it off asap. Haven't had a car for years.

I really appreciate your insight, as a potential future-me. I see two potential regrets in the future:

1) Regret working for 10 years and not pursuing things I was more passionate, just to have a nice stockpile of money

2) Regret abandoning my job and pursuing my passions, which ended up burning through my money, and putting me behind in my career.

Not sure which is worse. By limiting it to 6 months or so, the latter is mitigated, as long as I can get a job quickly again.

omosubi• 7 years ago

I think you will end up regretting not taking the time off in the long run. I took 2 months off last fall and feel stupid for not just quitting and doing my own thing. My manager said he never took any time off and regrets it. You will almost certainly never be in a better place to do this in the future.

kleer0012• 7 years ago

Haven't heard anything about a social dimension, other than lack of marriage partner. Are you in any clubs? Do you volunteer?

$275K is retirement money, it's 1% money. Either your risk aversion threshold is really really low or the size of that savings hasn't hit you yet.

Jumping into a 6 mo vacation is a great trial by fire for testing your retirement skills. Keep that brain busy and you'll be good.

yathern4• 7 years ago

I have friends and occasionally do things with them. (Just went on a week long vacation with them in fact) but I'm certainly not too social on a daily basis. You make a good point, that that is something to be aware of.

I guess it's a lot of money - I don't spend a lot, other than living in an extremely expensive place... But obviously I don't want to burn through it all. Last thing I want is to get addicted to living without working, and slowly burn through all of my savings. 5 years later, I have to get a job, but I'm no longer a good candidate.

kleer0012• 7 years ago

Excellent! Good friends are more valuable than gold.

Now, now, a budget is nearly trivial thing. Rent, food, travel, disposable, savings, interest, it's all pretty shallow math. Keep track of your spending and it shouldn't be a surprise as you go along. For a smart guy, running out of dosh shouldn't be a danger.

coralreef• 7 years ago

- You're probably overestimating your risks. You worked at a FAANG company for 3 years. You will be able to get interviews anywhere.

- You're 25, if you completely waste the next 6 months of your life, you've lost nothing.

- Consider asking your work for a 3 month sabbatical. Or some part time role. This can give you enough time to see if its what you want.

- Make sure you have obsessions outside of work/programming/sitting in a chair for hours. Bonus points if its social/athletic. You might be smart, but you're still an ape.

muzani2• 7 years ago

Eh kinda disagree with the first point. I have some fairly elite credentials but job hunts are still not much easier than before I had them. Also we might be due for a market crash.

Copenjin• 7 years ago

yathern, what do you do other than working? If you don't have one or more activities outside work that require constant effort, planning and have an objective, find some. Even if work is an essential part of everyone life, I wouldn't choose it as the main source of fulfilment. Work is for money.

I would "suck it up" (option 1, with a sprinkle of 3 eventually) and revisit this problem in a few years if it still persist.

Also, 1 week is not a proper vacation, it's not even enough to disconnect the mind from the problems you have at work.

Good luck.

soneca• 7 years ago

I am all for going with your guts, that's how I am built, but I would like to offer a different point of view.

"Sucking it up" seems to have a bad connotation from two different, even opposite points of view. Either you think of it as a coward move, to go against your "real" self and individuality to conform to a cubicle in order to receive a lot of money. It is almost like you are bribing yourself, having both accumulated guilty feelings of corrupting your ideals. On the opposite side "sucking it up" is viewed as a dilemma only for whining, entitled people, who believe they are above the routine obligations of life in society just because they are privileged — the usual "snowflake" critique.

I believe that both views are a dangerously superficial translation of a more profound choice that can lead to fulfillment and maturity; either way it goes.

The benefits of staying in your job can be more than money. There is a lot to learn in facing a harsh environment, facing uncomfortable obstacles, and dealing with unwelcoming people. If you endure all of that, you will recognize yourself as a stronger person, more professionally competent, more prepared to live and thrive out of your comfort zone. It will practially results in you having a better chance of achieving more things decades from now. It comes with the risk of not being any of that and, in reality, is just you staying in your comfort zone, not learning, not enduring, just following spoken and unspoken rules.

The benefits of quitting your job are the number of opportunities that open once you are out of a clear career path where you know all the rules. You gain freedom. You will learn about new things, new people, new cultures, new games with completely different rules you will have to learn. It comes with the risk of losing focus so much that you also learn, endure, and achieve nothing.

Which way to go all depends on which path you are most likely to pursue learning and personal growth, and which path you are most likely to fall back to a stable and unsurprising state, where you are the same person every day. Each person, at each moment of their lives, have their own better path. I am usually the one to go free and experiment a lot, quitting corporate environment as soon as I am bored. My wife chose to endure in a very demanding job because she believed in the mission (it was a non-profit) and successfully arrived at the other end of a tough year triumphantly, stronger, mature, and competent. Very happy with her choice.

We both might invert our positions in the future, and that's a good thing for you. If you quit now, you can work hard to go back to your position later. If you decide to stay, you can quit a year from now.

Good luck with your choice!

EDIT: Don't take this advice from a workaholic paradigm. When I say "learn and personal growth", it can be a year reading, relaxing, meeting people, travelling. To each his own... learning come in many forms

yathern4• 7 years ago

Thank you so much - I like your view a lot. I'll need to chew on it a bit more. I'm considering just saying "let me work on something interesting please" and seeing how that goes. Can't hurt!

dangwu• 7 years ago

I don’t recommend changing teams, unless you’ve found a perfect match with a manager you trust doing work that excites you. You’ll find yourself at the bottom of the totem pole, working on the worst projects, and having to spend year(s) to earn trust again. You’ll also have to learn all new domain knowledge, which is the biggest pain of all. At this point, you would’ve been better off switching companies and getting a raise. All of this will only reinforce your desire to quit.

mrdependable• 7 years ago

I don't know whether you should leave or not, but when I see threads like this a lot of people bring up the opportunity cost like you have. Having stability, health insurance, etc are important, but at a certain point you have to come to terms with whether you're being risk averse, or just chasing some ideal of "success" for your ego. Life isn't the month you spend on some crazy vacation somewhere once a year, or sitting in traffic in your Maserati. It's what you spend your time doing every day.

It sounds like you want to take 6 months as a way to enjoy life before getting back to "the grind". Taking time off is good, but I'd think more about where you want to end up rather than just jumping back into the job market and trying to maximize your income again.

giaour• 7 years ago

Many large companies will let you take an unpaid leave of absence for a few weeks or months without negatively impacting your career. I also work at a FAANG and have seen colleagues take a months-long leave for personal reasons, then come back and get promoted within a year. I've also seen people go on leave and then decide at the end of their leave to either join another team at the company or just quit and not return.

It can't hurt to ask, and going on leave rather than quitting would mitigate risks #1 & #2.

reducesuffering• 7 years ago

I think an important point that hasn't been brought up is health insurance. You're likely covered under your parents' family plan until age 26. This presents you an ideal time to have no job while still having health insurance. Make this decision to leave a year from now and you'll likely find yourself paying an extra ~500/mth. So this may be the most opportune time to take a 6 month leave.

badpun• 7 years ago

I may find that I have motivation for personal projects either, and live 6 months in a quiet depression in my underwear.

This. I've excercised my quitting fantasies a couple times before (I'm 38) and, without fail, after a couple months of working on a side project the excitement wears off and then it's just work - but without daily routine, coworkers and steady (and big!) pay. I find that, having the opportunity to make great money at job, I'm not passionate enough about anything to work on it for uncertain and delayed rewards. Classic golden handcuffs.

However - excercising these quitting fantasies have actually lead to a lot of personal growth, as I was able to test myself and to get to know myself better, not to mention branch out into different areas of life (my projects weren't only in software). And also somehow, after each flop, I've landed a job with similar or better pay than the one I've left. That was in Europe though, so I have no idea how likely is that in the US FAANGs.

I suck it up and do my job. People would love this job. It's cushy and it pays very well. Just do it for 5 more years and then consider this stuff.

The tricky part here is that, in 5 years, it's likely that your pay will be amazing and you will risk even more with quitting.

If you're 25 and on the fast track to big bucks at a FAANG, the smart move seems to be just to ride it into early retirement. Most people probably cannot resist the tempation of quitting and trying out something else for a while - it's cool, we're not robots. But the default strategy should be early retirement IMO.

world32• 7 years ago

However - excercising these quitting fantasies have actually lead to a lot of personal growth, as I was able to test myself and to get to know myself better, not to mention branch out into different areas of life (my projects weren't only in software). And also somehow, after each flop, I've landed a job with similar or better pay than the one I've left.

This is exactly my experience of quitting jobs to do something else. The grass was never as green as I imagined it to be before quitting, but the amount of new skills I learned and experiences I had were 10x what I would have gained from staying in the same job.

saluki• 7 years ago

You recently got promoted so your manager likes you and you are in a good spot on your team. So I wouldn't change teams.

I wouldn't talk to your manager about working on stuff you want or mention leaving to work on side projects.

Focus on your job for now, save even more and test out doing side projects on your own.

Check what documents you have regarding IP for things you work on outside of work on your own hardware. I wouldn't raise a red flag by asking this question through HR.

You might like this podcast StartUpsForTheRestOfUs.com listen to the archive.

I would start building some simple side projects that can earn some money and build up your skills and experience in that area following a stair step approach. Rob outlines it on StartUpsForTheRestOfUs.com.

Once you have a few wins under your belt you can think about leaving your FAANG job in the future to start a SaaS or other project that you feel has a high probability of success and generating quit your job money.

Good luck with your transition.

Jack000• 7 years ago

Why not just look for a new job immediately? I've never done this myself, but as I understand it the fastest way to rise through the ranks as an SWE is to jump to a different FAANG every 3 years or so with a raise and promotion.

I think there's not much point in quitting if you want to go back to doing largely the same thing in 6 months. If you really need time off you can always talk to your manager for an extended vacation/leave (churn is terrible for teams, so managers generally have strong motivation to retain you. My manager offered me 6 months leave when I quit, but ymmv)

I just want some time to work on projects I enjoy. Maybe make some money off them. Probably not.

If you don't have a concrete idea of what you're going to work on or how it will produce income, the probable outcome will be no - In which case, quitting in hopes of having side-project income in 6 months would seem like a bad idea.

I was in a similar spot when I quit 5 years ago. It took me about 3 years and 10+ attempts before my first successful commercial product. 6 months is barely enough time to build and validate your MVP, even if you have a highly specific idea of what to work on.

I think solo-entrepreneurship is an all or nothing proposition. On the one hand, the longer you stay in your career the more invested you'll become and the more difficult it will be to leave. On the other hand entrepreneurship requires a type of experience that is difficult to acquire while working as an SWE (specifically, customer acquisition and the product instinct to make something people will give you money for). I don't think there's a lot of middle ground between these paths, but ultimately it depends on your own skills, experience and aptitude.

Personally I think the ideal strategy is to stay at a high paying job while working on your business, but not everyone can do this (I couldn't, which is one of the reasons I quit)

go_ruby• 7 years ago

I agree with 6 months not being enough for an mvp, i'm 1 year in and am 85% to mvp, i do have validation from a consulting firm i used to work for where we successfully sold many enterprise clients before our owner sold and retired. Unless your mvp is dumb simple, plan on 2 years to develop a SaaS product that does not require massive manual intervention behind the scenes.

raztogt21• 7 years ago

Dude... leave. You have 3 years of expenses left in your account.

You will never be 25 again. You will never have your current energy levels, ideas, and zero responsibilities like right now at any point in your life again. Leverage them, build something great or find happiness.

amirathi• 7 years ago

I worked at Amazon for 4 years before starting my own solo bootstrapped venture.

- 6 months is very short time. Carve out 18 to 24 months for a real shot at monetization

- Consider moving to a low cost place or even back to your parents house for a year or two

- Plan finances in a way that you won't regret spending couple of years on a project that produced $0

- At $2k burn, 2 years of free time to pursue your goals for $50k should be a good deal in your position. If not comfortable, wait it out another year or two at a high paying job. Release 1-2 very small products in that time to understand how this world works.

codyb2• 7 years ago

I quit my job last year and moved to Lisbon for three months and had a blast. Spent approximately 15,000 dollars. Came back and got a new job.

Just remember that job hunting can take a few months with interviews and all the rest.

surfer369• 7 years ago

How did you spend $15k? That’s a ton of money for only 3 months. Also was 3 months too short? Sounds awesome though.

codyb2• 7 years ago

I traveled a ton. Went to Algarve, Sicily, and Porto. Flights there and back, rent. It adds up pretty quick.

muzani2• 7 years ago

This might not be the best place to ask. A lot of people here are quite risk averse, ironically with the startup roots. You'll get a very different response asking on Indie Hackers.

I've done a similar thing myself - sold a company, decided to try some small ideas. 3 years later, I've accomplished nothing. Now my goal is to get into the position you are in and work on side projects from there.

Some tips:

1. Be careful with social pressure.

A lot of people will resent you quitting their dream job or treat you like some spoiled/privileged guy. You'll be tempted to compromise but it'll make things worse.

2. Don't fall into the freelancer trap.

I see you're not entirely confident with your finances. It's tempting to take on one or two side jobs.

But freelance jobs are a bigger trap than full time jobs. The burst of money can ruin your financial discipline. There's a lot of unpaid hours - you'll be doing bureaucratic things like setting up bank accounts, taxes, writing proposals, unpaid meetings, marketing. It is possible for someone like you to make $200/hour or $300k working 20 hours/week.

Before you realize it, you're running a software agency that's making $1M/year, but barely profitable and high stress.

3. You may want a financial safety net anyway.

I'd recommend getting through something like Toptal or Gigster early on if you need it. The approval process can take a month and you can probably forget it later unless you need it. It's long and that's why the payment is way better than something like Upwork.

4. You may be overestimating your work rate.

Most people I know work about 1-2 hours a day on programming. Full time jobs are great at masking this. Most of the work involves planning something out, writing tests, drawing UI, meetings, refactoring, etc.

As a result, I literally did as much side project work while at a full time job than I did working full time on them.

5. Ideas are gold.

This is probably really controversial. But I think ideas are greatly underrated.

You've said you lose interest halfway. This is likely because the idea does not excite you. It also won't excite people who join you, or people who listen to those ideas.

Ideas are usually hardest early (where there's too many choices) and easiest in the middle (where it spawns more fun ideas, and starts making money).

When in doubt, go for the shortest route to profitability, or at least lots of users.

6. That said, are you sure you don't want to be a billionaire?

I mean it sounds ludicrous. It's literally much harder to be a billionaire than it is to sail around the world or climb Everest.

But it's easier to work on large projects than smaller ones. All the ones I have boundless energy for are epic.

Just plan it out and see how far it can go. It's easy to lose interest in smaller ideas.

A similar mistake I did was to join people who could not have epic ideas. I'd spend a month or two building something ambitious, getting investors excited, and the business guy shirks away from the pressure.

Anyway, whatever you choose to do, good luck. Maybe this might not apply to use, but it could be other perspectives worth considering.

segmondy• 7 years ago

If you do quit and find yourself looking for a cofounder, ping me.

sloaken• 7 years ago

Alt 3, then if need be alt 2. That is unless you HATE the company as a whole. When looking at Alt 2, consider talking with HR the often know of opportunities within a company.

komalsharma05• 7 years ago

If you need to quit for 6 months then go ahead. Learn different in 6 months for your better future,,, BEST OF LUCK......

throw03172019• 7 years ago

A friend of mine quit his job, lined up a new job at Google with a start date of 6 months from the day he got the offer. He and his gf travelled together and both came back and started working. I’m not sure how rare that is to get a job offer that holds for 6 months.

taurath2• 7 years ago

2 things financially to think of:

1) Burn rate - $4k is pretty high (I assume bay area). You could be living anywhere in the world for that 6 months on that burn rate.

2) Opportunity cost. If you make $250k/yr, you're spending $125k of potential income. Thats what you'll be thinking of at the end of the 6 months as you start to get a job. This is 100% okay, and life should lived - however, if you happen to be used to a certain lifestyle, and expect that lifestyle in the future, that opportunity cost may bite you when you consider how much more it would have made for you in 10 years.

IMO, if you think there's a real risk you actually sit around in your underwear for the 6 months, then make some change at your job, see a therapist, and examine your motivations both for work and those side-projects. If you don't want to work because you can't stand not being able to work on those projects, then quit and do so. If you're just looking for a change or some way to find your motivation, then make a change, see if its better, and if you're still not motivated take a motivation break and do things that are totally outside your comfort zone.

HNLurker2• 7 years ago

I envy you my friend

wantToQuit99• 7 years ago

Disclaimer: This is a throwaway account

OP,

I'm going through something similar - work at a FAANG company, have 250k+ in savings, contemplating quitting for a few months because things at work seem soul-sucking.

I went through the same trade-offs you mentioned. In the end I've decided to just take the plunge. When I'm 50, I don't wanna look back and think it'd have been extremely easy to take a few months off and see what that turned into.

PS: I'd love to get in touch and share our common insecurities if you're up for it. I live in the Bay Area and am reachable @ wantToQuit@impish.33mail.com

Ask HN: Should I quit for 6 months?

Related Stories