Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hong-kong-to-suspend-controversial-extradition-bill-11560579580?mod=rsswn

119 69 7 years ago

chews• 7 years ago

That is good news for the time being. Let’s hope more comes of this sort of action.

I don't think it is. It seems to me to be playing right into the hands of the chinese gov't. "we gave you what you want then you protest some more? Clearly you are liars and deceivers".

Then more violence by the police, completely justified this time because protesters must be just troublemakers.

It seems a very risky strategy. I would advise against it, or at least think very carefully, but what do I know.

pishpash4• 7 years ago

You are absolutely right. This happens over and over in history and people never learn (or intentionally don't want to). Politics is a game and there is a thing called overreach. Now is the time to consolidate on the gains, not to do something obviously impossible and way outside the procedural norm like removing Carrie Lam from office by street demand. Fight it out in future elections. At least there are real seats in the HK LegCo.

confusedhnguy5• 7 years ago

The protesters get what they want: this is the Chinese government's evil plan. The protesters couldn't get what they want: this is the Chinese government's evil plan.

Next time please just say that the Chinese government is evil, save all the typing.

zigzaggy• 7 years ago

“During her news conference, Ms. Lam pinned blame for the chaos on the government failing to effectively explain to people why the bill was needed, rather than conceding protesters’ arguments that the law was flawed.”

Politically savvy approach, but completely ridiculous. HKers understand exactly what this bill would do to them.

Nothing makes me more angry than bureaucrats with bad intentions treating the people that pay their salaries like children.

kombucha11• 7 years ago

Well she may be from HK and she gets paid by HK government but we all know she's a mainland shill and was chosen for that reason. She is 100pc in the pocket of the mainland government

randyrand• 7 years ago

how did she get elected?

the_resistence• 7 years ago

it's part of the system, elders always know best even when they clearly don't in many ways. Internet is changing the archaic thinking, but too slowly.

baby2• 7 years ago

Her discourse is really manipulative, in it you can find your typical attempt to divide people by focusing on the downside of demonstrations (injuries, crime, etc.), on the lie that it is a divisible bill, and on fake low numbers (10,000? more like millions).

This is very concerning. It feels like Hong Kong is doomed to lose more and more of its independence, and freedom of speech, and freedom of press, as the years go on.

I have a lot of friends and family there, and as much as I love China and can understand their politics due to the size of their country, I do not wish Hong Kong citizens to lose any of their rights.

powerapple3• 7 years ago

Of course it is going to lose more and more independence. The one country two system was designed to integrate, not dividing China and HK. The independence movement concentrate too much on 'two systems', bringing 'HK is not China' banner in parliament, trying to make China disappear in text books, do you think the central government is going to extend two systems after 50 years expires?

bobthepanda2• 7 years ago

It was always meant to, but people naively assumed that like every other Asian developing country (South Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia, Phillipines) rising incomes would eventually result in a democratic China.

thinkpad20• 7 years ago

“as much as I love China and can understand their politics due to the size of their country”

The size of China is not the source of their politics; the source is a totalitarian state that ruthlessly suppresses any dissent and maintains constant surveillance of its people. Not to imply that you meant otherwise, but the citizens of mainland China are no less deserving of political rights than those of Hong Kong; rather, they have simply been denied them by those in power. The 30th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre was only last week —- it could have ended similarly in Hong Kong. Also, unsurprisingly, Chinese media has been almost completely silent about these protests and many on the mainland are completely unaware that anything is happening at all.

agent00f2• 7 years ago

I'm curious where all these concerned westerners were when hk was undemocratically ruled by the Brits as a colony.

Were they ignorant of what they meant at the time or did they not care so long as others were ruled by their own?

rqs3• 7 years ago

Oh, well, as a "mainlander", I tell you: Hong Kong citizens WILL lose all their rights, and it will come sooner than you think.

If you watched this protest and all their other protests, it is very easy to see one thing: Their action is isolated， they don't have the power to unite people other than themselves. Nobody besides themselves will stand for them. Nobody in mainland support them, nobody in mainland understand them. Many mainlanders even developed Schadenfreude when looking at those protests.

(OK, "Nobody" is a bit of over exaggeration, but fairly right if you want to feel the situation)

Why? Because they are protest only for their own rights, on their own little land that nobody cares anymore. It's not about greater good, not "making the entire China democratic". Just "We're Hongkongers, we are special, so we must have those rights", while don't give a damn when the rest of China is been stripped clean.

How many HongKonger protested when Xi changed the Constitution? Not this much.

Nobody cares about your right if you don't defend the right of the others. 50 years, if they don't change China for the better, China will change them, as simple as that.

frequentnapper2• 7 years ago

A bit hypocritical of you to complain about them not protesting for your rights, when you are unwilling to protest for theirs.

hker2• 7 years ago

Disclosure: Hong Konger

Why? Because they are protest only for their own rights, on their own little land that nobody cares anymore. It's not about greater good, not "making the entire China democratic". Just "We're Hongkongers, we are special, so we must have those rights", while don't give a damn when the rest of China is been stripped clean.

Every year on 4 June, Hong Kong people hold a vigil in Victoria Park for the Tiananmen square crackdown [1][2], and one main theme of the vigil is to continue the spirit of the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests: to make the entire China democratic (one of the slogans is 建設民主中國, literally to make China democratic). In these years, this vigil in Hong Kong is the largest gathering to demand making the entire China democratic in the whole world.

Given that Hong Kong people are doing that every year on 4 June, I think it is reasonable that in this case--anti extraditions law protests on 9 June and 16 June this year--Hong Kong people are doing something else. But this does not mean that Hong Kong people do not fight for democracy in China or for greater good--to say the least, this anti extraditions law protest also benefits foreigners who stay in Hong Kong, or merely in transit.

Also, there are 6000 PLA troops stationed in Hong Kong, and there were cases of Hong Kong people getting abducted into China for publishing books that some members of CCP do not like [3]. There are not much more that Hong Kong people can do for themselves and for mainlanders... if you have better suggestions, please let us know.

I think they are doing their best.

Nobody cares about your right if you don't defend the right of the others.

Then what have mainlanders done for Hong Kong?

[1] https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=64+hong+kong+vi...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorials_for_the_1989_Tiananm...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway_Bay_Books_disappearan...

chewz• 7 years ago

China is a bilion people ruled by small clique and their security apparatus. If you guys unite you will be unstoppable.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1989

ETHisso20172• 7 years ago

I'm impressed, this is much more responsive than how Macron has handled the gilets jaunes.

elefanten• 7 years ago

One can't really compare a democratically elected president bound by rule of law and various balances to a totalitarian puppet.

pishpash4• 7 years ago

That should make it more impressive.

ephemeralism• 7 years ago

There's no law preventing him from resigning.

ETHisso20172• 7 years ago

Exactly my point, we usually expect democratically elected leaders to be more responsive to protests than autocrats.

onetimemanytime• 7 years ago

back down until they find a sneaky way to reintroduce it. IMO, case closed. Just a matter of time

heraclius• 7 years ago

A notice of no objection for Sunday’s march has been issued.¹

1. https://www.police.gov.hk/info/doc/nono/POERN19007953E.pdf

acoderhasnoname• 7 years ago

As far as i understand the bill doesn't apply to those with political or religious offense. what are these people protest against?

agent00f2• 7 years ago

These types of protests are largely encouraged by the West to deepen division within it's enemies, same as with sunni/shiites in the middle east, or gop/democrats by the Russians. You can tell because the West didn't give a single shit when hk wasn't democratically ruled by the Brits, but now democracy there is headline propaganda.

magnusjonsson3• 7 years ago

The PRC didn't exactly cooperate when the UK wanted to introduce democratic measures in HK well before the handover. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_development_in_Hong...

anonymousab• 7 years ago

Give an inch and they'll take a mile. The slippery slope is a very valid concern with one of the most powerful potential adversaries actively wanting to integrate you and dismantle your system of government.

From their perspective it's not hard to imagine China trumping up charges (or getting one of the other listed nations to do it) to get their hands on someone they want. Likewise, having the law on the books at all makes it a (comparatively) very small step to simply add more things to the list of acceptable extradition reasons.

China's domestic actions have not given HKers much reason to trust them, and they know that they won't have any chance of clawing back any measure of sovereignty in their system that they give up now.

magnusjonsson3• 7 years ago

China has a lot of vague laws and a history of making up accusations to fit the occasion, with no way for HK judges to examine evidence, and trial with presumption of guilt. This excellent comment on reddit by IosueYu answers the question better than I ever could: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/bvux0z/hong_kong_...

thinkingemote2• 7 years ago

Political submissions on HN make me want to reinstall the tagger extension so known trolls or obvious shills can be tracked.

Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

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