IEEE Lifts Huawei Restrictions on Editorial and Peer Review Activities

https://www.ieee.org/about/news/2019/statement-update-ieee-lifts-restrictions-on-editorial-and-peer-review-activities.html

by sohkamyung • 7 years ago

88 31 7 years ago

ieee.org

kken• 7 years ago

Our initial, more restrictive approach was motivated solely by our desire to protect our volunteers and our members from legal risk

In other words: They overreacted, possibly biased by those in charge.

pishpash• 7 years ago

"Our initial, more restrictive approach was motivated solely by pulling something out of our goatse ass."

More seriously, I'd like to understand what legal liability they thought they were exposed to, and how they made that decision so fast, and who.

neilv• 7 years ago

I was guessing that IEEE lawyers and/or gov't officials temporarily advised IEEE to do what they did, and, later, gov't officials notified IEEE it was OK.

That this affected the IEEE in this way is a matter of concern, for an international academic/professional organization. I'd say most of us want to do good work, in good faith, for all of humanity, and are happy to collaborate around the world.

Even when there are tensions and conflicts among nations, politicians, and businesses, the rest of us can keep doing our collaborative work. Also, our mutual engagement around the world promotes diplomacy and our better selves.

blu42• 7 years ago

Unfortunately trade wars are as real as any other kind of war, where 'no holds barred' is the norm.

I'm still amazed how many people fell for the 'concerns of espionage' pretext. I guess most wars in history have started will equally dumb pretexts.

Barrin922• 7 years ago

Good. That this at all happened should make them think about relocating to a country like Switzerland. They're supposed to be an international organisation.

toxik• 7 years ago

... this is all because IEEE is under US jurisdiction, not Swiss

aitchnyu• 7 years ago

Could you explain how hard is to move IEEE outside the US?

intsunny• 7 years ago

Switzerland is neutral in arms only: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_neutrality

Switzerland has numerous policy/economic/security/etc agreements with the EU.

Barrin922• 7 years ago

I don't think that's a major issue as the EU isn't very coercive when it comes to these types of institutions. Has Switzerland ever coerced an institution into behaving the way the IEEE just did?

majia3• 7 years ago

Even though the restrictions are lifted, the damage is already done. Now everyone knows that IEEE has to comply with US gov's demands, which can be made without any court ruling or due process.

anfilt2• 7 years ago

err that applys to any company/organization in any country. You just can’t break a countries laws and hope to get away with it.

If anything IEEE was too quick to move, but I am not their legal team.

gmueckl• 7 years ago

I don't know the specofics.about the US, but other countries have legal means to take government dwxisions to court and - depending on the issue - a least force a delay on the order until the court decision has been reached. I would be surprised if the US had no such mechanism to defend against illegal or unjust executive orders.

gonvaled• 7 years ago

Any meddling by any other country would have not had the same effect.

What you are saying is that, because of the pervasiveness of US tech, all organizations having US a companies as members are at risk.

Time for the world to route around this single point of failure.

inflatableDodo• 7 years ago

You just can’t break a countries laws and hope to get away with it.

Firstly, which law would they have been breaking if they had not blocked Huawei, given the subsequent guidance they have been given?

And secondly, which universe do you inhabit? Companies and organisations break the law and get away with it in this one with monotonous regularity.

majia3• 7 years ago

US law says that an Ericsson 5G researcher from Sweden cannot have his paper reviewed by a Huawei employee, who could be the most knowledgeable expert in the sub-domain.

Justifying this kind of unjust law is like saying Google should comply with Chinese censorship request to suppress dissent opinions in Sweden.

chvid• 7 years ago

My guess is that most of restrictions on Huawei will be rolled back within a relative short period. However the damage this has done to America's reputation will stand for a long time and will impact some major strategic decisions not only in China but also in Europe.

oblio• 7 years ago

You just can’t break a countries laws and hope to get away with it.

As an outsider, have they? Have they actually been convicted of anything relevant in US courts?

matthewdgreen• 7 years ago

The IEEE is (in this role, at least) a scientific press. They should have, and assume, a strong 1st amendment protection in pursuing that goal. The fact that they didn't assume this -- and then had to subsequently reverse their policy once the lawyers weighed in -- is pretty damning to the leadership of the organization.

derefr• 7 years ago

Should it apply to nominally international bodies, which happen to be headquartered in a specific country, but which do not derive any specific benefits from being so headquartered, it being just an accident of history that the international membership first came together there?

It’d be like saying that the Swiss government has sway over the International Criminal Court. Seems strange.

kevin_b_er• 7 years ago

The fallout from this will be, I suspect, that standards bodies will no longer be centered in the US. The historical leadership the US has in setting the trend for technology will suffer great damage. All for political ego.

wbl• 7 years ago

Did you read article? The government said "no, we didn't mean that when we said this". IEEE overreacted.

BeetleB• 7 years ago

Now everyone knows that IEEE has to comply with US gov's demands, which can be made without any court ruling or due process.

What do you mean "now"? IEEE has a history of this:

One of the world’s largest scientific societies has barred researchers in certain countries from publishing in its journals and receiving member benefits. The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers says it has taken these steps against scientists in Iran and four other so-called rogue nations subject to U.S. trade sanctions to ensure that IEEE staff stay on the right side of U.S. law.
But other scientific organizations do not discriminate against scientists from these countries, leaving some observers to accuse IEEE of playing the rogue.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/9087784_IEEE_Under_...

Also:

In February 2004, during the final year of Khatami's presidency, the U.S. Department of the Treasury ruled against editing or publishing scientific manuscripts from Iran, and stated that U.S. scientists collaborating with Iranians could be prosecuted. In response, the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) temporarily stopped editing manuscripts from Iranian researchers and took steps to clarify the OFAC guidelines concerning its publishing and editing activities. In April 2004 IEEE received a response from OFAC which fully resolved that no licenses were needed for publishing works from Iran and that the entire IEEE publication process including peer review and editing was exempt from restrictions. On the other hand, the American Institute of Physics (AIP), the American Physical Society and the American Association for the Advancement of Science, which publishes Science, refused to comply, saying that the prohibition on publishing goes against freedom of speech.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_sanctions_agains...

jdright• 7 years ago

The damage is done. I think the lost of trust will have considerable impact.

IEEE Lifts Huawei Restrictions on Editorial and Peer Review Activities

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