Los Angeles – scenes from the collapse of a city that’s lost control

https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-lopez-skid-row-rats-trash-20190601-story.html

by malingo • 7 years ago

53 51 7 years ago

pgnas• 7 years ago

The polticians have destroyed California. This is your case study for social programs, socialism, unlimited immigration, social justice policy and now they are testing UBI?

California should be our wake up call to change, instead, we double down on the same policies.

nutcracker46• 7 years ago

San Francisco and Los Angeles are the future of California. California is the future of the United States.

omosubi• 7 years ago

What does reasonable policy regarding homelessness look like? I'm not trying to be snide, I'm genuinely curious. I don't live in California btw.

ericmcer• 7 years ago

Step one would be acknowledging that a proactive solution is ok. the current policy seems to be almost 100% reactive damage control, i.e. providing food, shelter, medical care to the homeless and attempting to clean up after them without displacing them at all.

mjevans2• 7 years ago

Hopefully a moderator pulls (your post) out from under the parent and makes it a top-level reply to the article.

To start with, any policy affecting a population that can move and be moved has to operate at the scope that those people are allowed to move. That means the taxing and funding distribution HAS to be on a national level. It probably also means that per-recipient funding needs to be proportional to the cost of living in a given area. (which SHOULD also be calculated realistically.)

This would at least stop "poor" communities from dumping a national problem on bigger cities that try to be more kind. It would also encourage longer term solutions over broken window / temporary bandaids.

It would also need to be systemic. There are a number of failures in society contributing to the issue.

  * Single payer healthcare - everyone's covered.
  * Actual mental healthcare (not just asylums)
  * Everyone is a worthy being
  * New New Deal - A job for all, with meaning and value.
  * Identify and correct market failures.

One such market failure is 'housing', where there are jobs, where there is opportunity to build a new and better life, that's where people want to live. However rent-seeking is destroying the ability to build a life, a community, an actual home, family, or future.

thebradbain• 7 years ago

I genuinely don’t see the homelessness problem as being caused by policy, but by lack of it: California has perhaps one of the largest safety nets of any state in the US, and it is saving a lot of people who have fallen on their luck — by design.

The problem is that California, at all levels of government, refuses to fix its core issue: Housing, and the cost of living at a level to hold onto that house, is Too High. Ever notice how California is willing to try anything and everything to fix its homelessness crisis except intervene in the housing market in a meaningful way? In my view, California’s legislation in its current state is a band-aid, not a cure. But a band-aid is (temporarily) better than nothing.

Ultimately the free market (* I’ll concede an argument may be made that housing is not a truly free market, since municipalities have created strict zoning legislation to favor homeowners, but my point still stands), directly and indirectly, has failed everyone looking to build a permanent home and life in California (unless your definition of “success” includes a large population unable to afford a home where they live).

I’d imagine that without these “social programs, socialism, ... social justice policy” there would be many more homeless people than there currently are.

masonic2• 7 years ago

  Housing, and the cost of living at a level to hold onto that house, is Too High

But 99.7% of CA has less expensive housing (mostly far less expensive) housing than the 17 square miles that are SF, so using SF as your metric for statewide policy is silly. If you aren't working or going to school in SF, you don't need to be housed there specifically at public expense. Housing and care dollars go much farther elsewhere.

davidu• 7 years ago

Just s/Los Angeles/San Francisco/g and it's the same story.

neonate• 7 years ago

http://archive.is/xL5FA

alexnewman4• 7 years ago

I talk with the homeless in my neighborhood all the time. I've not met one over 30 who didn't have severe mental or physical illness. Those who call it a housing problem are confusing you. This is a public health crisis in the states where the authorities have no authority to help those who can't help themselves

bsanr2• 7 years ago

There are several studies and pilot programs that show that reliable housing is a key component in recovery of homeless people with mental health issues. Conveniently, providing it also solves the homeless problem.

varelse8• 7 years ago

Agreed, and it comes back when you stop providing it...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-homelessness-housing/...

WalterSear• 7 years ago

Yes, but the housing problem still isn't the homeless problem. Affordable housing won't prevent or cure mental illness, housing support is just a requirement for recovery. They aren't directly related.

There's no way to fix housing sufficiently to make it affordable to someone dealing with mental illness and living on the street: that problem has to be addressed separately, and directly.

alexnewman4• 7 years ago

Interesting. Link?

PhasmaFelis• 7 years ago

It can be both. Unsupported disability is a major cause of homelessness, but simply not being able to pay your bills can happen to anyone.

People who live on the streets are more likely to become sick or traumatized, and sick people are more likely to recover if they've got somewhere safe and warm to sleep. It's not as simple as a single root cause.

alexnewman4• 7 years ago

True but none of the people on my street have this story. They need help not houses

masonic2• 7 years ago

What are your qualifications to distinguish between actual mental illness and intoxication or "acting out"?

CryptoPunk2• 7 years ago

Long-term use of hard drugs causes physical and mental disabilities. Until that problem is solved, all other problems in their life will just get worse.

panarky2• 7 years ago

The natural reflex in the US is to scream "Democrat" or "Republican" as the supposed root cause of every problem.

This is just rooting for your favorite team and it doesn't illuminate what policies work or don't work.

A better way would be to survey the cities of the world, measure crime and homelessness, and systematically identify the policies that consistently deliver better results.

dundercoder2• 7 years ago

I might be dreaming but I would love for people to be more concerned about what’s right, not who’s right.

CryptoPunk2• 7 years ago

I wish the problematic policies weren't perpetuated almost exclusively by one party, because then I wouldn't sound so partisan.

Opposition to laws and policies that set boundaries on the behaviour of drug addicts, like anti-vagrancy laws and forced rebab, comes only from Democrats.

Empowering public sector unions that make public servants less accountable and government less effective is promoted primarily by Democrats.

The creation of clusters of social housing that creates crime-ridden neighbourhoods that perpetuate anti-social and lawless behaviour, as well as government dependency, is done exclusively by registered Democrats.

Look at major cities with severe trash/homelessness problems, and how many of them are run by Democrats. In the short-term, a lot of Democrat policies help the people they set out to help. In the long run, they create government dependency and ghettos, and that harms far more people.

If you want law and order, Republicans are the party to vote for. The longer this reality is denied for political correctness reasons, the stronger the populist right-wing political backlash will be when it comes.

rossdavidh2• 7 years ago

So, in this country, the Democrats tend to do better (electorally) in the big cities, and the Republicans find more success in small towns or rural. So, when a big city is run by Republicans, there is always a very real and ever-present chance of Democrats taking it away at the next election.

On the other hand, there are many big cities where Democrats think they will never lose to Republicans, and in some cases (e.g. Chicago) they're right. So there is less of a check on their power.

So, the better comparison to Democrats running a big city, would be Republicans running a state where Democrats haven't won state-wide elections in a long time.

bilbo0s• 7 years ago

?The natural reflex in the US is to scream "Democrat" or "Republican" as the supposed root cause of every problem.

This is just rooting for your favorite team...

I can attest to this. Long time ago, I lived in Minneapolis for a while and thought the place got worked over by liberals. Now I live in small town Wisconsin, and we got bent over by conservatives so bad that we're a regular feature in the national news and the butt of late night comedy jokes.

I was foolish when I was younger, and thought the liberal-conservative thing made a difference in politicians. It doesn't. You can get reamed by either one. In fact, you're most likely to get reamed when you're thinking in terms of the liberal-conservative dichotomy.

At least, that's been my experience. Your mileage may vary I guess.

senser• 7 years ago

As a gay person, I definitely get less reamed by Democrats... Can we please stop with the false equivalences? The entire system might be garbage, but I can tell you who is and is not trying to take away my rights.

sjg0072• 7 years ago

Umm.. this article is about illegal dumping. That has nothing to do with politics.

What LA needs to do is setup cameras in those areas with license plate readers. Also LA has also always had a problem with illegal dumping. Maybe offer a tip line as well with cash rewards.

panarky2• 7 years ago

Umm... nothing to do with politics.

Cruise through the comments on this thread to see this "natural reflex" on display.

posbehsf• 7 years ago

I don’t know which city is worse, SF or LA, but at least in recent weeks/months SF OK’d construction of a new shelter along the Embarcadero despite money and outcries from nearby condo owners.

I still don’t know what the solution is to address the mental health aspect of homelessness. It’s disturbing seeing disheveled people scream at the top of their lungs in the middle of FiDi after work and no one batting an eye.

hackermailman• 7 years ago

Article describes many more problems than the homeless, such as rampant illegal street dumping done by businesses and residents, unchecked rodent population and used needles littered everywhere which are definitely things a city mayor could do something about.

dundercoder2• 7 years ago

Is there a state in the US that is more diverse (geography, economy, etc)? I wonder how much that complicates things.

You can drive north for nearly 8 hours from San Diego and still be in the state. You’ll go from inner city to cow pastures and onion fields and back again.

ReginaldButter• 7 years ago

"The bags, some of which were split open, contained spoiled fruit and trimmings from pineapples and mangoes. That part of town has a lot of produce wholesalers, and it’s no secret that some of the illegal dumping is done by local merchants and customers."

The City of Los Angeles doesn't have a composting program?

CydeWeys4• 7 years ago

Illegal dumping happens because enforcement is low and it's easier than the alternatives. It doesn't require alternatives not existing.

And in this case, the reason you'd illegally dump is because it's free, whereas commercial trash collection and composting services aren't (which is generally true in most cities).

ohples• 7 years ago

What's with all the dumping? Is it hard to get rid of trash in LA, or have people just stopped caring?

sjg0072• 7 years ago

It's not hard but can be expensive. Since illegal dumping is not being enforced, people are getting away with it to save money.

Los Angeles – scenes from the collapse of a city that’s lost control

Related Stories