Sweden Seeks to Detain Assange

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/11/18/world/europe/AP-EU-Sweden-WikiLeaks.html?_r=1&hp

by CaptainZapp • 16 years ago

74 66 16 years ago

nytimes.com

vibragiel• 16 years ago

For those not registered at nytimes.com, here's a bookmarklet to bypass the login page:

http://nytimes.blogspace.com/genlink

CaptainZapp• 16 years ago

Thanks,

I always forget that the grand old lady requires registration.

mrcharles• 16 years ago

Another easy trick is to google the title of the article -- it is almost the first google hit, and clicking a NYT link from google bypasses their login system.

eof4• 16 years ago

Nothing against the OP since s/he just copied the title from the article; but that title is really misleading.

A prosecutor requesting a court order to detain someone for questioning simply does not mean 'Sweden' proper wants to detain Assange.

jrwoodruff• 16 years ago

It's an official of the Swedish government, acting officially on behalf of the country. Maybe it's an American thing, but this is pretty standard headline writing.

eof4• 16 years ago

I was under the impression that this was not a mere formality; but rather a request from a lawyer that may or may not be granted. Reading roel_v's comment though I may be mistaken.

henrikschroder2• 16 years ago

Over here, such headlines are usually reserved for statements from various ministers of the government. The way I read that headline is as if our minister of justice made a statement about Assange, and it would be a big surprise to me if she had done that.

So from this perspective it's misleading.

danik2• 16 years ago

It doesn't work like that in the USA either, does it? If a official of the government, say a judge in a city, does something do you have headlines saying USA did it?

roel_v10• 16 years ago

Could you clarify:

Are you saying that a country cannot have actions of its own and cannot detain anyone? In that case, yes obviously, but it's common use and nobody will misunderstand. I don't see how it's misleading, what do you feel people are lead to think?

Or are you saying that just because the prosecutor has requested it, doesn't mean that it will be granted or that he's wanted at all? In that case, keep in mind that in several countries the request is a mere formality and is (save for exceptional cases) always granted. If that is the case in Sweden, as I suspect, it's not that much of a stretch to write that he's already wanted.

(to contract with the US/other common law penal systems and the way people see it happen on Law & Order, those systems are accusatory, meaning that the public prosecutor builds his case against the defendant who get to defend himself, with the whole process being watched by a judge. Most Western European system are inquisitory, meaning that the prosecutor looks for the truth and is not antagonistic against the defendant from the start. This whole process is also supervised by a judge, but that judge is much less strict and will assume more the role of a 'backstop' for egregious violations of procedure. This judge is this type of system is much looser in granting requests for warrants, searches etc. to the point where they are routinely granted, under the assumption that the prosecutor has already thought the request through and wouldn't request it if it weren't necessary.).

Then again maybe someone who actually knows something about Swedish criminal procedure could fill me in here rather than me reasoning from generalities ;)

eof4• 16 years ago

I see I might have just been mistaken about the process. I was lead to believe, from reading the title, that there was some court action that ruled that Assange be detained.

After reading the article I was more under the impression it was just a request for a subpoena from a lawyer.

After reading your comment I am under the impression that they are basically the same thing.

gizmomagico9• 16 years ago

Yeah I bet Assange feels like he's been able to move way too freely until now, so he decided to start raping women!

He'll probably tour all Western countries, and rape a couple of women in each to make things a little more exciting.

Edit: Wow, what was fast! You really believe this is not bullshit?

Edit2: Or are we just not allowed to discuss reality on HN? Rainbows & Unicorns are much nicer.

crocowhile• 16 years ago

I don't see why you are being downvoted. The allegation of rapes, both filed on the same day, sound like the cheapest way to get an international mandate for him indeed.

gizmomagico9• 16 years ago

I can see why you're being downvoted though..

roel_v10• 16 years ago

The question is, is there any factual proof that the claim is a fabrication, or is it all a big conspiracy theory? If Assange commits a crime, is it always made up because he ticked off the government? Merely claiming it's a trumped up charge for the sole reason that he's the Wikileaks guy is not a strong argument. (it's not a valid argument at all, I'd say).

allenbrunson3• 16 years ago

You are allowed to discuss reality here. What you are not allowed to do is make jokes about something as repulsive as rape.

If you are civil and respectful, you can make any point you want here. You failed that first test, though.

gizmomagico9• 16 years ago

Yes, rape is terrible, and judging by your reaction, you're probably American. Was that a racist slur or just an observation?

Would it also be terrible to be falsely accused of rape, in an internationally public manner?

The problem here is that mine was the first comment to allude to the whole debacle being disgusting bullshit.

There weren't almost any comments in the thread, possibly because if you really wanted to discuss this, you'd have to discuss the whole thing being bullshit, and facing the bullshit-laden reality we live in is unpleasant.

HN doesn't want to discuss unpleasant realities.

That may actually be a good thing for maintaining the high quality of discussions on other, more pleasant subjects - who knows. But on the other hand, spreading awareness of bullshit being bullshit would do us all good in our role of ordinary citizens of various governments.

eof4• 16 years ago

I don't think he was buried due to his joke about rape. Or at least I hope not. He wasn't pulling rape out of thin air, as it's obviously the context of thread.

I imagine he was down modded for his weak use of sarcasm and abrasive way of making a weak point.

Gizmomagico seemed to be saying 'assange wouldn't have committed what he allegedly did; as it would retard his ability to move freely and he is too smart for that' -- which may or may not be true, and is irrelevant as evidence.

As a side note; getting offended about the content of a joke is really sort of silly. People seem to act like joking about something is somehow akin to 'doing' the thing. I don't think an argument can be made that a joke about rape makes rape any more likely; and while it may be crude and unfunny: making the claim that something is 'off limits' is really weak.

For example: 'statistically 9/10 people enjoy gang rape'

Erwin• 16 years ago

Hans Reiser was, by any account, pretty smart. His journaling filesystem was quite a technological leap over ext2 at the time.

Yet he did murder his wife. Some hardcore fans denied his guilt up (some claiming his mild autism was exploited by the prosecution to make him appear guilty) until the very point where he lead the authorities to where he buried the corpse of his wife.

drivebyacct22• 16 years ago

Wait, you mean they assumed he was innocent until he was proven guilty. That IS shocking. How dare they.

grandalf8• 16 years ago

Do you realize that Assange had nonviolent, consensual sex with those two women and it's only a quirk of the Swedish legal system that the word "rape" being used in relation to the charges against him?

Assange's actions would not be a crime under US law, and would by no means be described by anything close to the word rape.

gizmomagico9• 16 years ago

And Reiser's case proves that Assange is a rapist, no doubt?

sneak• 16 years ago

Julian Massage

henrikschroder2• 16 years ago

Update: The request was granted, and an arrest warrant is issued for him. According to the newspapers this might be expanded to an international arrest warrant.

Probably the best news source in English for this: http://www.thelocal.se/30286/20101118/

dsplittgerber• 16 years ago

For context: Press release from Assange's lawyer:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/71lsqt

Quote: "Despite his right to silence, my client has repeatedly offered to be interviewed, first in Sweden before he left, and then subsequently in the UK (including at the Swedish Embassy), either in person or by telephone, videoconferencing or email and he has also offered to make a sworn statement on affidavit. All of these offers have been flatly refused by a prosecutor who is abusing her powers by insisting that he return to Sweden at his own expense to be subjected to another media circus that she will orchestrate. Pursuing a warrant in this circumstance is entirely unnecessary and disproportionate."

grandalf8• 16 years ago

It would seem to have been appropriate for the NY Times / AP to include mention of this release in its coverage.

jrockway• 16 years ago

Yeah. And I really don't see an agenda on the NY Times' side, as Wikileaks' work has allowed them to write a lot of great articles.

charlesattlan2• 16 years ago

This article stinks. Someone seeking means nothing. Juilan's official response: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/71lsqt

The main point is that it is against EU legislation for arrest warrants to be made public. Every attempt at contacting the wanted person has to be made. This suggests shenanigans at some level: bad journalism from nytimes/the swedish tabloid pushing the agenda of the Pentagon, or some form of corruption/incompetence of government officials in Sweden.

roel_v10• 16 years ago

"The main point is that it is against EU legislation for arrest warrants to be made public"

That doesn't even make sense. Even if I interpret this as 'most criminal procedure laws across Europe prohibit...', it's still not true.

"... bad journalism from nytimes/the swedish tabloid pushing the agenda of the Pentagon, or some form of corruption/incompetence of government officials in Sweden."

This is claimed various times in this thread and on other sites, but I have yet to see any proof, even if it's in the form of circumstances that point in this direction, or other small hints in that direction. The only reason people believe this seems to be cognitive dissonance - 'I like the idea of Wikileaks, so the guy that runs it must be a good guy, so everything he's accused of must be false.'. That's not rational at all.

grandalf8• 16 years ago

On the bad journalism claim: The NY Times article is shown as breaking news and has one update, yet it lacks any mention of the statement issued by Assange's lawyer. Further, the headline and first bit of the story implies that there must have been some new development in the case against Assange, when in fact there has not been.

charlesattlan2• 16 years ago

I'll concede bad journalism on my part; my post was rushed and not accurate. The important part is the following taken from the official European Human rights on rights to a fair trial (6.3):

"Everyone charged with a criminal offence has the following minimum rights: to be informed promptly, in a language which he understands and in detail, of the nature and cause of...".

Publicly announcing the desired arrest goes against this idea, and that suggests systemic failure inside Sweden, and subsequent bad journalism that started in sweden and is being copied else where, particularly by the nytimes. If you compare EU coverage of the leaks; death tolls, frago 242 (an order not to actively prevent torture) and civilian casualties were the lead. In the US it has been Assange's private life. That smacks of an agenda, and nytimes actually spiked a story on frago 242 and a google search for "site:nytimes.com frago 242" comes back with 4 useless results. Search "site:guardian.co.uk "frago 242" and you get 164 good results.

The initial stub was utter trash, barely above a copy-and-paste of a Swedish tabloid with the good bits removed. The nytimes pushed this article as soon as they could without possibly fact checking. The lengthened article is a little bit better, but still uses any excuse to push the rape charges and the idea that he is a wanted man. More accurately is Assange perhaps facing charges of molestation which is a better translation, and what did he do? Assange claims he had sex (there has been a claim else where this could be unprotected sex) with multiple partners who found out and retrospectively took revenge through legal proceedings. And remember the media has pushed the "rape" charges without evidence, initially just hearsay and from leaked police reports. Again that goes against the idea of a fair trial.

I believe there is deceit or incompetence somewhere, and that is not produced from cognitive dissonance. The evidence I use is how botched the process has been. If there was evidence of rape, a very serious claim, he could have been arrested in Sweden at the time. He was told he was free to leave, without even the need for an interview. Months have gone by and no attempt had been made. Now he is out of the country (Sweden) it all conspires to portray him as a guilty man on the run. That is the narrative that is being pushed; ignoring the 15,000 deaths the Pentagon lied about, the hint of a molestation is more important.

mrtron• 16 years ago

This stinks of a smear job.

A Toronto newspaper has the front page story "Swedish court orders Wikileaks founder Assange detained in rape case"

"A Stockholm prosecutor started a rape investigation that was dropped by the city's chief prosecutor a day later. Ms. Ny reopened it the following week."

It seems like they are just opening and closing the same case to repeatedly bring media attention to Assange in connection with it.

joshes• 16 years ago

A bit off topic, yes, but does any one else cringe when they read the phrase "computer hacker" in a major news publication?

Just, ugh.

Sweden Seeks to Detain Assange

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