Headspace vs. Calm: A Meditation-App Battle That’s Anything but Zen

https://www.wsj.com/articles/headspace-vs-calm-the-meditation-battle-thats-anything-but-zen-11544889606

by yarapavan • 8 years ago

125 103 8 years ago

rjbwork• 8 years ago

I find the voices used in both quite terrible. I quite like Sam Harris's voice and so I got his app.

His actual voice is just endlessly zen, so when he's really trying to be soothing and calm in a guided meditation. It's just really calming and transparent, so I can focus more on the technique of meditation.

He also has more of a hands off approach compared to Headspace and Calm. Whereas the other apps are pretty high touch, Waking Up is fairly low touch, and Sam lets minutes go by with no guidance, just letting you attempt the technique on your own after the introduction.

procinct• 8 years ago

https://outline.com/AXH95C

asaddhamani• 8 years ago

Thank you

amanzi• 8 years ago

I'm a fan of Insight Timer (https://insighttimer.com/). It has tons of free guided meditations as well as meditation courses that you can pay for. I tried both Calm and Headspace and I just didn't like the feel of them. Both seemed to tick all the cliche monetisation strategies of mobile apps.

jlengrand2• 8 years ago

I used headspace for a while, but then got hammered so heavily with ads so I heard the dude's voice for months on endm, interrupting my videos. To a point that I just can't stand him any more and considered reporting.

I don't understand how an app that claims to want to help you meditate can invest so heavily on harassing users with ads everywhere. This really pushed me off meditation altogether to be honest

hedgew• 8 years ago

I had the same experience. I'm in the correct target demographic because I'm interested in meditation and not yet doing it actively, but the ads have reduced my interest in meditation more than anything has increased it.

claudiawerner• 8 years ago

This is the first time I'm hearing anything about headspace and the whole idea of ads in a meditation app is simply absurd! Even if they don't play while you're supposed to be meditating, aren't ads one of the features of our world which is known for detracting from mindfulness?

jimiray2• 8 years ago

I use it also and always recommend it, at worse you get a good timer for free. I probably do guided about 25% of the time mostly because I'm looking to learn a new meditation style. Also it has free yoga nidra courses, which to me is maybe more powerful than meditation. But no one talks about it the same.

nitins• 8 years ago

I am also fan of Insight timer. I had tried out a bit of headspace and calm earlier, found Insight to to work better for me.

desireco422• 8 years ago

I think both of those are... well kind of stupid. If you want to meditate, you can use some guiding meditation in first few times, but really you want to be able to meditate on your own.

In interest of many commercial products is for you to be dependent on them. This is opposite to benefits of meditation in my view.

Now as always, real thing is much harder than pretending to do it, which is why those two apps are popular. Sam Harris app is much better in that regard for example.

playpause• 8 years ago

Even people who have been meditating for decades often do guided meditations, not because they can't do what you call the 'real thing'.

johnisgood4• 8 years ago

Via apps? :D

desireco422• 8 years ago

That is not my experience. You don't need apps to meditate.

sn41• 8 years ago

I just didn't find headspace to be effective on a long term. One simple mindfulness exercise I did find useful is noting, especially observing when you change posture. After the initial promise however, I found that the effects did not last. I will try insight timer, since it seems to get favorable reviews.

skilled• 8 years ago

These apps make no sense to me. What's wrong with going outside and sitting still? Do you really need all this tech/sounds/talking/etc,. to find stillness in yourself?

Meditation can be tough to learn, but you only have to do it once. I find it hard to believe that one can find true balance in their practice by using a meditation app. And what is the deal with having to pay for something that's essentially free?

Is it the entertainment value, or is it so that we can tell our friends, "Hey John, I just spent $5 on that new 'stress release' meditation and I have been feeling so zen!!".

elbear• 8 years ago

Here my own experience with headspace.

I was meditating for some time, but I felt like I wasn't making any progress. I know the point is not to aim for progress, but I was and it was discouraging. So headspace helped me back on track.

I really liked Andy's voice and the guided session helped me see meditation in a different light. He uses all these metaphors to make you realize that thoughts are constantly passing, that you shouldn't judge yourself for getting caught up in a thought pattern.

I would say that the biggest advantage to meditation apps is that they distract you from your own thoughts and draw your attention to certain topics. They can also teach you how to relax when you're finding it hard to do that by yourself.

Also, I want to add, I stopped using headspace, because I didn't feel the need for guidance at some point. Actually, I felt it was distracting me, so I returned to meditation without any guidance or other devices.

whitepoplar2• 8 years ago

Yeah, I feel the same way. I'd go so far as to say that even being near my phone makes it harder to concentrate. If I want to meditate, I turn it off. (Not on silent, but off. I find great comfort in not being near powered-on electronics).

dfgert• 8 years ago

I feel the same about meditating near an powered-on electronic device, but in modern world it impossible to escape from EMW emitting devices. You can turn off all wireless capable devices in your home but can't control devices in neighbor house or nearby cell tower.

I have personally had more satisfaction meditating outside in fresh air near natural environment than indoor. I also know of many meditative experts who routinely visit remote areas in forests to practice deep concentration.

I would like someone to build an app to locate more favorable spot for meditation by calculating net wifi traffic in air.

pacomerh• 8 years ago

You have a good point, but at the same time what these apps offer is step by step guidance. Some people, I'd say most people don't even know where to start and this is exactly what they offer. Maybe a vague example would be paying for a gym membership.

hug2• 8 years ago

Why pay a personal trainer when you can just do pushups instead?

Why go out for dinner when you could just cook for yourself?

Why pay for a therapist when you could just stop being depressed?

Why pay for a financial advisor when you could just do your taxes yourself?

chewz2• 8 years ago

Exactly, very good question.

Why not just do pushups, walk the stairs or just go running, cook for yourself and your friends, know yourself instead of paying for therapy. Even doing taxes yourself isn't such a burden.

rf15• 8 years ago

I'm not convinced that throwing money at the problem is the solution to everything. I think sometimes it takes actual personal effort.

rv-de2• 8 years ago

Your examples don't make any sense - neither by them selves nor with respect to the criticism they are aimed at.

superasn2• 8 years ago

Similarly you can say Why sweat it out and do the hard work when you can just buy an abcrucher, abroller or slim suana belt that promise the same result without any effort.

These apps too are meant to lure our lazy instant gratification craving part in exchange for money.

codingdave• 8 years ago

Every single one of those questions has the same answer: Because they have knowledge that I do not, and can help bring the results of that knowledge into my life.

If an app brings change into your life, via application of knowledge you do not yet possess, then it has value. Whether or not these specific apps meet that criteria is, however, a question worth asking.

zaptheimpaler• 8 years ago

Agree so much. At its core, this is just another example of a well-tested strategy to make money - take something simple, make it complex, then sell a teacher/guru/app who makes it simple again! Same reason why so many books that could be 5 pages long are 200 pages instead - 5 page books don't sell.

Not to say its all a scam - it does genuinely help to have a trusted teacher in many cases, whether its for accountability and a push or just reminding you of the basics.

I guess what seems more distasteful to me is how much meditation is being marketed as the new self-help cure-all to stress/anxiety etc. Its makes you wonder how many people need it because they are stressed vs. how many people need it because marketing manufactured that need.

mbrock2• 8 years ago

There have always been meditation teachers, practice programs, books, all kinds of materials. Monasteries are like huge complicated frameworks for meditation. In our culture we instead have apps. Maybe that's kind of lame, but it is what it is. And it kind of scales more economically...

ekianjo• 8 years ago

having to pay for something that's essentially free?

At least it's cheaper than the Transcendental Meditation snake-oil course (sponsored by your favorite celebrity):

https://www.tm.org/course-fee

kieranmaine3• 8 years ago

The book "The Science of Meditation: How to Change Your Brain, Mind and Body" talks about how having a teacher or going on meditation retreats will help you become better at meditation than just going it alone. Although these apps in no way compare to a teacher what is wrong with people using them as a support (As I do myself)? If they get people starting down the path to a daily practice, then I don't see what's so bad about them. To those dismissing people that do use them please practice some loving kindness and try and understand why we might use them.

jahaja• 8 years ago

talks about how having a teacher or going on meditation retreats will help you become better at meditation than just going it alone.

Maybe I'm cynical, but that reads like a pure monetization strategy to me.

wallace_f2• 8 years ago

Can someone help me understand, or reference an article, what is hard about meditation? Or what are people seeking to improve upon when seeking meditation servicss?

monadgonad• 8 years ago

Meditation can be tough to learn

And these apps are a way of learning far cheaper than hiring a coach irl.

r41nbowdash2• 8 years ago

Meditation can be tough to learn, but you only have to do it once

it is hard to learn. been to a 10 day vipassana retreat this year, and out of 100 hours of sitting, i've spent maybe 5-10 truly concentrated, and we're talking perfect conditions, with some prior experience

the most difficult part in my opinion is getting the reference point for how meditation should feel like - you can spend years doing what is breathing exercises, visualization, etc. never hitting that point. this is where Muse (https://choosemuse.com/) helped me tremendously

commercialization aside, the real question is about the value of guided meditation most of these apps are about. like, honestly i don't know.

jimiray2• 8 years ago

I've been curious about the Muse device. Do you still use your every practice?

vinceguidry2• 8 years ago

I learned through face-to-face instruction with a teacher, some fifteen years ago. These days I consider the experience invaluable. There's something about having another person there legitimizing what you're doing, which is basically sitting down and daydreaming, that soothes the conscious mind and allows it to take the task seriously.

I don't know how much value an app can be in replacing a real person, but it's gotta be better than nothing.

bsenftner5• 8 years ago

Ever hear of a book? Traditionally, they are far better than an app, and in many ways better than a human teacher at your side. Meditation is one case where a book is probably the best guide. Speaking as a Transcendental Meditation practitioner for over 40 years, started in 5th grade back in '76. My Iowa church and school freaked and even tried to claim my meditating was a satanic influence on other kids... If it's not Satan it's Capitalism fucking with meditation. Why are people so tribal stupid?

projectileboy• 8 years ago

It's a good question. As someone who has practiced meditation in fits and starts over years, I can only say for myself that Calm provides a structure that helps me make sure it actually happens. I use the Apple TV app mostly, and I've been meditating much more consistently over the past few months than I had previously.

alexkavon• 8 years ago

Humans have always had a dependence upon technology to garuntee them happiness (i.e. television, apps, social networks, automobiles, housing markets, etc). As technology improves, our society becomes more and more reliant.

When technology fails us for one reason or another we seek a form of change (i.e. shutting off your brain for a moment, meditation). However since our society has developed dependencies on apps, we seek the solution in the exact madness we’re trying to escape. To err, is human.

remir2• 8 years ago

Sure, but without these apps, perhaps millions of people wouldn't have been interested in meditation.

I mean, you certainly don't need a Fitbit or Apple Watch to change your habits and start to exercise regularly, but for some people, having the feedback from these devices help them see their progress and that's what keep them motivated.

EGreg• 8 years ago

What do you think of Sam Harris’ app specifically? Pros and cons?

relativeadv• 8 years ago

I've always meditated on my own. I tried Headspace to see what the fuss was about and thought it was laughably bad...but i'm not a beginner so it probably just wasn't aimed toward me.

Sam Harris's app is the only one i find actually valuable because he frequently releases 5 to 30 minute "lessons" that are audio of him teaching some aspect of meditation or purpose. Talks on death, gratitude, the goal of meditation, thought experiments, etc. I don't do his 30 day guided meditations that are also in the app, but I'm sure they'd benefit some people.

The pros with Sam's app is that he is going to give you a unique experience and ask you to "look for things" in your meditation that might otherwise take you years to realize you should be looking for.

The con is the same with all guided meditations. An app can't tell what level of concentration you happen to be at during your 30 minute sit, and so it often interrupts you just as you're making some real progress.

Accacin• 8 years ago

I'm not really into these apps, but personally I love listening to one or two ASMR channels on YouTube. If I'm feeling stressed I have 3 or 4 that I listen to very often and they help me a lot.

vidar• 8 years ago

Can you share the links?

acqq• 8 years ago

anything but Zen

Well... Zen isn't just what people today associate with it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_at_War

and when we're there:

https://www.tofugu.com/japan/bushido/

tlrobinson• 8 years ago

“Since winning App of the Year, we seem to have a much higher growth rate than they do, and we’ll surpass them from now on,” Calm’s Ms. Wang says.

This statement alone makes me root for Headspace.

bsenftner5• 8 years ago

Capitalism wreaks the concepts of meditation.

altairiumblue• 8 years ago

Many of you are correct that you don't necessarily need an app and you definitely don't need guidance after a point. But Headspace specifically has been extremely helpful in teaching me how to approach meditation and how to make a habit out of it.

For anyone who is just beginning I would definitely recommend going through Take10, all the Basics packs and all the Pro packs in Headspace. In this order the guidance gradually decreases and by the time you finish you will have built a good routine and will be ready to switch to unguided meditation.

At the moment I use Oak - it's free but only available on iOS. It effectively acts as a timer and tracker for my unguided meditation, nothing more.

I've tried Calm and I don't get appeal - the content, design, progression, voices... everything seems strictly worse than Headspace or Oak.

mercer2• 8 years ago

Agreed! Headspace was what finally got me to consistently meditate, unlike the other apps I've tried including Calm.

It could be a matter of taste though. The creator/'guide' of Headspace, Andy, has a kind of British bloke-ey voice that I really prefer over the deep, 'spiritual' guide of other apps. Maybe that says more about my distaste of the woo-hoo that is common in this field, but still. I've talked to people who dislike Headspace because of Andy's voice though, so YMMV.

rv-de2• 8 years ago

I really don't understand why one would need an app to meditate. Meditation is really simple. There's no need for automated guidance.

new_guy• 8 years ago

These apps are horrible. They function as a crutch for people who just don't know any better (not necessarily their own fault) and what they teach isn't even actual 'meditation'.

And that makes it even worse because then you get all these people saying 'ooh I meditate' when no, they've not even meditated once.

It's all western BS about making money, not about helping anyone. And people are too stupid/lazy/dumb to know any better, it's the same with 'learn to code in 24 hours', '6 abs in 6 weeks' etc.

If you want to meditate - actually meditate - get rid of the apps. Just go sit somewhere and turn your attention inwards, it's so simple, children should know this.

There's also a world of difference between 'being present' (which should be your default mental state) and actually meditating, they're as different as night and day, that's something else people don't get.

</rant>

The constructive part, if you're actually interested check out Raja Yoga, again 'yoga' that westerners do is a bastardized form of Hatha Yoga which was nothing more than a warm up in itself. There's a good series of lessons from the 1940s. You'll find them if you're meant too.

userchris• 8 years ago

Why do you seem them as a crutch/why do you see what they practice as "not meditation"?

For perspective, when trying meditation at first, I did it without the use of any technology- I read "Mindfulness in Plain English" and some other articles and books, and attempted meditating based on what I learned there (with mixed periods of success).

And then at some point later, I tried headspace to see what the hype was about. I found both paths helpful and effective- after all, the guided mediations in headspace largely just reflected the same things that the books had taught me. I don't have a headspace subscription and wouldn't get one, but I don't see it as significantly different than an audiobook version of some of the material I had read about in order to understand how to meditate. And maybe you could make the argument that people should just do that instead (listen to audiobooks, since the cost would be much lower). Do you see something fundamentally different?

alexashka• 8 years ago

Please take a look in the mirror, your ego is out of control.

Words are for people to communicate to one another. They're not a stand-alone entity that will remain correct, regardless of time and place.

In the west, yoga and meditation mean something other than what they mean, in other cultures and time periods. That's perfectly fine.

Folks are doing stretches and holding poses, they like it. Great. Folks are sitting down and listening to something soothing for 10 minutes, they like it. Great.

There is no downside here - the only downside you're finding is inside yourself, being projected outwards.

TelmoMenezes• 8 years ago

There is no downside here - the only downside you're finding is inside yourself, being projected outwards.

Well, there is one downside: it makes it harder to refer to the original meaning of the word, which could point to something valuable.

heavenlyblue• 8 years ago

Neither do I like the tone of the parent comment, and neither have I went to the meditation lessons, so I am not an expert, but:

> In the west, yoga and meditation mean something other than what they mean, in other cultures and time periods. That's perfectly fine.

You know, in real life we take care of our children because they will never know better if we don't teach them something at the right time. So often it's actually beneficial for someone to push you in order for you to understand the finer things in life.

In my stretch class it would probably take me a few months to reach a split if my teacher wouldn't just push me (by pushing I mean literally - physically push my legs apart). Because I was afraid I would tear something apart - be he otherwise knew it wasn't as unsafe as I've thought.

So... Yeah. Make sure you've got a good teacher before you start. Because most of them generally do not care at all.

libdjml• 8 years ago

Just go sit somewhere and turn your attention inwards

Perhaps you were born with a natural instinct for what meditation is, what to do when thoughts arise and you go off track, how to sit comfortably, what you’re aiming for and what you’re not.

But I didn’t, I needed to read books to start my development. I absolutely don’t think children should know this.

meowzero4• 8 years ago

The concept of meditation is simple. But you might need guidance on how to get over roadblocks or need new insights that might help your meditation practice. These apps are helpful for that.

bsenftner5• 8 years ago

Christ people, this is a glaring place where an app is a complete joke. Don't be so stupid!

ryanwaggoner• 8 years ago

You definitely sound like a good source of advice on how to be more zen and less reactive :)

vntok• 8 years ago

“The irony is not lost on me,” says Rich Pierson, CEO and co-founder of Headspace, of the rivalry with Calm. But he’d rather focus on his Santa Monica, Calif.-based company’s authenticity, he says, which is drawn from co-founder Andy Puddicombe’s 10 years of studying meditation at Buddhist monasteries.
“If you were going to see a psychologist, you’d probably want to know where they trained and qualified. It’s the same with meditation,” Mr. Pierson says. Calm’s founders previously worked in online gaming and advertising.

meowzero4• 8 years ago

I've been using Headspace and the 10% Happier apps for about a year (I started with Headspace, canceled subscription, and tried 10% later). I think they're very helpful. They're especially helpful for beginners who want to try meditation.

I'm reading some comments here and see some people mention how easy it's to meditate. I'm wondering if they actually meditate or know what it is. Before I started meditating, I too had similar thoughts. But I had some misconceptions of meditation before I tried these apps. These apps helped me to start my meditation on the right path.

After a year, I don't think I need these apps anymore. The guided meditations are distracting themselves because the teacher jumps in at random points to remind you of things that you already know. I do like the teachings they do before an after meditations. Sometimes, they are helpful and insightful.

I think these apps are fine for beginners. Once you get used to meditating for 20+ minutes every day, you probably won't need them anymore.

superasn2• 8 years ago

But as a beginner who wants to start too, my question is it better to use a paid app with monthly subscription than to listen to the same guided meditation on mp3 or youtube?

meowzero4• 8 years ago

It's up to you. All these apps have few several free sessions you can try out. Heck, download all the meditation apps and try all their free sessions. Those are probably enough to help you get started.

I didn't mind paying for subscriptions. They do get into different techniques and insights that the free content don't give you. Although I never tried insight timer; that app seemed to give you a lot more content for free.

wool_gather2• 8 years ago

One important thing that you get with the subscription, which could be harder-to-impossible to find free, is a progression of instruction. A 10-day series might remind you just in time about some detail you were forgetting, or provide insight on a difficulty you're likely to have encountered, or introduce a new technique and guide you through simple->full versions of it.

endr777• 8 years ago

Davidji has a nice Soundcloud channel

mercer2• 8 years ago

As others have mentioned, being properly guided with the help of a nice UI does make a difference. I'll add that actually paying for a service helped a bit too, though. didn't want my money to go to waste...

billfruit• 8 years ago

Is meditation really different from doing any focussed activity? Especially isn't reading a book same thing as meditation, only more educative.

dwaltrip• 8 years ago

Mindfulness meditation, at least, is very different. A key attribute is awareness of the current moment -- the here and now. Books, including non-fiction, take the reader to another place.

momentmaker• 8 years ago

Try oak meditation app by Kevin Rose. I've been using it for a while now. There is guided or unguided meditations.

remir2• 8 years ago

Meditation apps certainly helped a lot of people discover that practice. In a stressful world, that is great.

But it's funny how this turned into a big business.

timka• 8 years ago

TRY MEDITATION! ⁱᶠ ʸᵒᵘ ᶜᵃⁿᵗ ᵇᵉ ˢᵘᶠⁱ –Idries Shah, Knowing How To Know

Headspace vs. Calm: A Meditation-App Battle That’s Anything but Zen

Related Stories