Las Vegas Slot Machines vs Electronic Voting Machines

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by jgv • 16 years ago

72 28 16 years ago

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eli4• 16 years ago

Scary stuff, but this is from 2006 and not all of these things are still true in all places. (States like CA require access to all software used on machines, for example.)

That said, these comparisons between voting machines and ATMs or slot machines are always a bit unfair. Slot machines and ATMs carefully log and track every action that every user does on them. In a voting machine, it must be impossible to tie a vote to a specific person. This is makes it a much trickier problem to solve.

something2• 16 years ago

The problem may be tricky, but surely it's worth solving and doing so publicly. Shouldn't this be doable?

Of all the things i would like to see well-intentioned billionaires do, funding a permanent mission to perfect voting is very high on the list. what greater gift to democracy than provable integrity of its atom?

eli4• 16 years ago

Here's the other thing, though: voter fraud is incredibly rare. Yes, we could do better. But this is not the most pressing issue of our time.

Really, we may be better off launching a PR campaign to remind people that voting mostly works.

rapind• 16 years ago

I would argue that most modern slot machine software is far more complex and far more production tested than any existing voting software.

There's no possible technical reason why voting software isn't basically bulletproof and transparent.

andyv2• 16 years ago

I am sooooo glad I don't have to vote electronically. Folks here who flip bits for a living know only too well how easy this is to do. Changing a thousand paper ballots? Hard, time comsuming, messy. Changing a thousand electronic ballots? Invisible, silent, quick, untracable...

dminor• 16 years ago

How exactly do you think those paper ballots are being counted?

andyv2• 16 years ago

Why, electronically, of course. But (1) the original paper ballots still exist and (2) the machines that do the counting are far fewer and are in a secure location. Fraud at this level can be detected by examining a random sample of ballots. Easy to do, since all the ballots are present.

ertyujhygfd• 16 years ago

In civilised democracies they are counted in public by lots of little old ladies while inspectors from each party, and any member of the public can watch them.

Of course this does rather reduce the drama and excitement so it might not be suitable for you chaps.

anamax• 16 years ago

You don't have to change paper ballots, you merely have to replace or "find" them.

axiom• 16 years ago

This is probably just a function of slot machines having been around for much longer.

Of course all these same requirements make perfect sense to implement for voting machines.

electromagnetic• 16 years ago

Actually I believe it's a function that older machines were specifically designed to be either unwinnable (I've seen some old slots, certain ones don't have BAR or 7 on all wheels) or for the odds to be exponentially against you.

When the laws changed and gaming was regulated casinos wanted to make sure they weren't the ones now being cheated.

balding_n_tired• 16 years ago

I disagree. It's a lot easier not to go to Nevada than it is to pick up and move someplace where you prefer the voting system.

gallerytungsten• 16 years ago

Alas, the game is rigged in DC and the state legislatures. Regulation as strong as the slot machines is likely to be applied...never, at the current rate of change. So goes the gamble of democracy.

Stevenup7002• 16 years ago

I never thought I'd say this, but the US government definitely needs to take a cue from Las Vegas..

iwr• 16 years ago

In Las Vegas gamblers get no bailouts.

SkyMarshal2• 16 years ago

They did, and passed laws that turned Wall Street into the house.

stretchwithme4• 16 years ago

All you need in a voting machine is something that can properly punch the cards. That's what the problem in 2000. You don't need to send the votes over the Internet or store anything on the machine. It doesn't need to be secure.

But you will need a PC that costs a couple hundred bucks. And a card punch machine that has been around for decades. In other words, commodity hardware.

Once you've made your choices and your ballot's punched, you should be able to walk it over to a completely different PC that has a punch card reader. And maybe its got software from a completely different organization. Did it record your choices properly? Confirmed. Now, drop it in the box.

Simple. No possibility for fraud and you got a paper trail.

SkyMarshal2• 16 years ago

Nit: You don't even need anachronistic punch card machines, color-in-the-bubble voting forms work just fine. Those are used in even more places than hole punch forms these days, from voting to SAT grading machines. They're even more commodity, more familiar to the public.

Otherwise, agreed.

stretchwithme4• 16 years ago

yeah but using a PC lets the user see their choices clearly and encodes their vote with a single click, instead of having to relate a letter or number to their choice and find the question on the form and then confirm the letter or number before finally filling it in. Grandmothers with shaky hands will have a much easier time.

stretchwithme4• 16 years ago

I think its worth mentioning that winner-take-all elections prevent you from getting your interests represented. So this whole debate is like fiddling with the alignment of your wheels when the car's no longer on the road.

mkramlich• 16 years ago

I voted today. A few of the issues I had to vote on had only 1 choice. (I fill-in the bubble, or, not. WTF.) Several had 2 choices, the RP candidate or the DP candidate. A few had 3-5 choices. A few had a blank line for "write in" choice. This is "democracy" in action today in the USA, folks.

stretchwithme4• 16 years ago

We need proportional representation. I'm pretty sure I'd have better choices with PR. Right now its a choice between people that don't understand economics or real life and people that don't understand economics or real life.

Las Vegas Slot Machines vs Electronic Voting Machines

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