Europe is drawing fresh battle lines around the ethics of big data

https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/03/europe-is-drawing-fresh-battle-lines-around-the-ethics-of-big-data/

by kawera • 8 years ago

69 54 8 years ago

exceptione2• 8 years ago

Slightly on topic, afaik, techcrunch does not adhere to GDPR rules. It forces me to consent to ads and ad tracking while denying me the option to withheld my consent.

oh_sigh2• 8 years ago

Presumably that's because techcrunch doesn't operate in the EU and aren't bound by their regulations.

craigsmansion3• 8 years ago

If Techcrunch/Oath is selling/collecting Europeans' data, they are bound by the GDPR.

Whether they have enough operations in the EU for the EU to enforce it is another matter.

evgen• 8 years ago

Given the number of events Techcrunch sponsors in Europe I find that a hard argument for them to make.

johnchristopher4• 8 years ago

It doesn't force you to anything unless you click OK. And even then you can manage your preferences then with Oath.

craigsmansion3• 8 years ago

It forces you to accept cookies that aren't necessary for the functioning of the site to view the content.

According to the GDPR, you can't do that.

exceptione2• 8 years ago

I don't allow cookies, unless I whitelisted your website.

Angostura• 8 years ago

Have you tried managing your preferences? It's a circular hellscape.

Sir_Substance2• 8 years ago

GDPR recital 43.2 establishes that you may not make provision of a service conditional upon someone granting consent for processing of personal data if the personal data is not required to provide the service.

tyfon• 8 years ago

I have avoided them for a few months for this exact reason.

I think once the different data authorities kick into action in Europe, many companies will get a nasty surprise.

surak• 8 years ago

Please, stop linking to Techcrunch on HN if you respect privacy. For those in located Europe you have to go through a disrespective process to read a story.

mpweiher2• 8 years ago

With my JS blocker in-place and Reader View, it's actually fine :-)

randcraw• 8 years ago

That'd be my thought too. Does this difficulty persist when you employ Ublock Origin, Privacy Badger, Ghostery, etc? And a browser that doesn't override the user's wishes, like Firefox or Opera?

Without defenses like these, for example, reuters.com is intolerably spammy. But with them it's a delight. Same goes for TechCrunch.

hartator• 8 years ago

Disrespective process?

joering2• 8 years ago

Try it through europe vpn. Long list of many pages of third party sharing leeches and dark ui techniques (you only see accept button and have to click on the non underlined normal looking text to see the list of oartners; no “select/deselect all” button means you have to click off each checkbox)

tomjen3• 8 years ago

Normally you can get around that by disabling js. Alternatively I have pocket installed and just save in that.

But we seriously need a browser standard header that says no to that, along with a requirement that the only necessary cookie to read a website is GDPR with the value 0.

I think tc is at more than 50.

mpweiher2• 8 years ago

And yay to the Europeans! How long has the tech world complained, not entirely earnestly, that the ad-financed, private surveillance internet is broken? What has happened so far?

Sometimes a bit of well-placed regulation, which pretty clearly separates the ethical from the unethical in general and understandable terms can go a long way in getting action rather than just hand-wringing.

Those unethical things you are doing? Guess what, they're now illegal. So go figure out a different business model. It's not optional.

sonnyblarney• 8 years ago

The basic intent of all of this is fine, however, I don't believe this is going to end up where we want it.

Particularly with upcoming legislation regarding 'link taxes' etc. , we're already seeing hints of problematic issues.

Moreover, I think the end result will be just problems for Europeans and frankly very little improvement in material identity protection and basically no improvement in terms of quality of life for Europeans.

What's needed is another model for all of this, but it's way beyond the EU commission to come up with that, as exemplified by the odd 'link tax' rules, which hopefully will be amended.

amelius2• 8 years ago

It's good to keep in mind that:

"big data" != "privacy sensitive data"

by definition.

dcbadacd• 8 years ago

I'm a bit confused by your definition.

What if the data becomes privacy sensitive after big data methods are applied to it? Does your comment say it isn't possible or it's not big data when that happens?

amelius2• 8 years ago

It's not a definition. I'm sorry, I should have said "per definition" instead of "by definition".

miki123211• 8 years ago

I think all this GDPR bullshit is just nonsense. The more acts like that we get, the worse for real users, and especially developers it will be. Just think about it for a second. Large companies have large departments full of lawyers responsible just for that kind of thing. Yes, they might be resistant to change, but if they're forced to change, they will either change or figure out a way to not change while still staying compliant. Law is usually full of loopholes and the bigger you are, the easier it is for you to abuse them. The more law restricting what tech companies can or can't do we get, the harder it will be to create a startup. Imagine being a twenty-something biologist and creating a startup that's going to sell some medicines you created in the garage because your grandma is sick and she can't afford the ones on the market. The idea just sounds ridiculous. The number of certifications, clinical trials, approvals and other regulatory hurdles you need to overcome is just too high for someone without a full fledged legal department. I think the same thing will happen in tech, eventually. There will be no more startups made by two roommates at college who have just thought about some revolutionary idea. If someone even tries, they will instantly shut him down for not complyying with this or that regulation in some foreign country he hasn't even visited. Wise founders might try to find a lawyer or two and make their startup compliant with one country's laws and then do georestrictions. Big companies, with their legal departments, however, will be able to navigate that tangled mess much more easily. As a result, we will get big companies tracking us anyway and no way for small startups to rival them, much slower progress in countries with overly paranoid privacy regulations, which will cause economic development of such countries to be slower, and a worse quality of life for citizens in general.

Bjartr• 8 years ago

What I've read on this seems to point to how European laws tend to be enforced to the intent of the law rather than the letter. So it's harder for loopholes to be explored in ways common to US law. Further, I think (though could be getting GDPR and the copyright laws confused) there is a clause that says the law should not be enforced in a way that is onerous to small and medium businesses. Which, again, as I understand EU judges to act, should actually mean it's still easy to start a company, but once you're pulling in sizeable revenue you must invest some of that in ensuring compliance.

Take all of this with a huge grain of salt since I learned it from comments on HN. I'd love it if anyone can lend a more experienced take on this to either confirm or definitely what I've said here.

Jonanin• 8 years ago

The EU's war on big companies with big data feels too much like the opposite of "focus on your users instead of your competitors". EU has been quick to throw around a lot of fines and new regulations. But I what I don't see is any European governments or companies offering superior alternatives to customers, or any vision of what superior systems would look like.

The EU is too focused on figuring out what's wrong with the technology that was invented 10-15 years ago to be the birth place of the next big alternative.

csense• 8 years ago

What is the mechanics by which GDPR is enforced against companies that are US based? Like, you live in the US, your website is blatantly non-GDPR-compliant, you get a court summons from Europe, and ignore it, and then a bill for a fine, and you ignore that too, what happens?

Do they force European ISP's to blackhole traffic to your website's DNS / IP if you don't comply? If you're hosted on AWS, do the European authorities make Amazon an offer they can't refuse: Either Amazon takes down your GDPR-violating site, or every Amazon package everywhere in Europe becomes illegal? Can they force your bank to disgorge the fine directly from your bank account without your consent (e.g. by threatening to cut the bank off from any ability to legally transact with anyone anywhere in Europe)? Can they get an extradition warrant and have US police arrest you and send you to stand trial in Europe? If your company's CEO travels to Europe on vacation, does he risk having European police waiting to handcuff him as soon as he steps off the plane?

clubm8• 8 years ago

I think you need to have a European office. The issue is that many do - if not to have a legit satellite office, then because they moved their "official" HQs to Ireland to participate in tax shenanigans.

groestl• 8 years ago

Nothing of that sorts, but: The GDPR applies only to non-EU organizations when they specifically target people in the EU, e.g. local currency payment, shipment to the EU, local support hotline. This usually requires contracting services from EU companies. And while the violating company can ignore the legislation, their service providers might be fully liable for any damage in the chain, caused by gross negligence.

Europe is drawing fresh battle lines around the ethics of big data

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