Ask HN: Disgruntled client. How would you respond?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1812148

by zaidf • 16 years ago

9 14 16 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

MY EMAIL(in response to client's threats): I did FAR more work than the $150 you have paid me. You are the one that owes me a balance and you say so in your own email. You can continue to waste your energy doing counter-constructive things that benefit neither of us or we can work out a fair deal. Your call.

CLIENT'S reply: I got nothing but strung along by you. That was the issue and got nothing for $150. No, it's not a waste of time if I can protect others from your deceptive business practices. All I want is a refund. If you can't do this then you leave me no choice, but what do you care. You think it's ok to fuck people around. I don't know what fucked up country you come from because I know it not from here for you have no honor just like your fuckin' muslin countryman whackos!! I was the stupid one to deal with muslin idoit!! Fuck you!!

Background:

* Was hired to do a small site/ebook design project(<$1,000).

* Client and I decided to part ways about midway point.

* Disagreements arise about partial final payment and original files. Client wants to pay additional $150 for orig. files. My calculations based on time invested come to $273, which is what I counter with.

* Client goes silent for two weeks until yesterday when he files a paypal dispute for the $150 initial payment he'd made. I call up PayPal and they immediately close the dispute in my favor.

* Get the above email from client in addition to threats of making CL posts against me.

* I've typed and backspaced "Go fuck yourself" several times only to remind myself to stay professional and reasoned--which I'd like to think I have been throughout. Unfortunately, it only seems to change the client's tone for the worse.

I am thinking at this point replying to this email is a lost cause. What do you guys think?

abgoosht2• 16 years ago

Reply:

As previously mentioned, please deposit the remaining $123 in order to receive your original files.

Thank you, -Name

That'll burn one through him.

zaidf4• 16 years ago

Good idea.

To clarify, client owes me $273. It's easy to confuse: he paid $150 deposit and offered additional $150 for the orig files. I'm asking for additional $273.

abgoosht2• 16 years ago

If he's this angry, he's either a prick, or he's a prick who really needs the original files. Nonetheless, just stay on the course. If he really needs it, he'll pay you for it. you've got the winning card, now work on your poker face.

RiderOfGiraffes2• 16 years ago

What do you want to get out of this?

What do you think you can get out of this?

What are you expecting to get out of this?

It seems to me based on that most recent email that you will get no more money.

Let's create a decision tree ...

+ Assuming you can get more money (probability 10%? Probably less given the racist rant)

++ You can only get more money by negotiating and handing over the original files. What are they worth to you? Yes, you have invested time, but that's a sunk cost. It seems to me that they are of no value to you except for the money you can get for them.

Options:

+++ Ask for your $273 and refuse to budge. You will get nothing, they will be angry. Return=$0

+++ Accept their offer of $150. You have a 10% chance of getting it. Return=$15

+++ Ask for $100. They'll be surprised and try to bargain you down. Stand firm. You'll get $100 with 20% chance. Return=$20. Best option.

+ Assuming you will get no more money, are the files of value to you? I doubt it.

++ Keep the files. The bastards won't get anything, will be angry, will do what they can to damage you. Return is less than 0. You need to assess how much damage they can do to you.

++ Give them the files. They'll be shocked, feel righteous and vindicated, but are unlikely to take further action. Return=$0

++ Give them the files and state that you would like them to settle, but they have no obligation to do so. Say that they offered $150, but for the possibility of parting without too much rancour you will accept $100. Probability they pay? Hmm. 20%? Return=$20

Personally I'd write a "more in sorrow than in anger" email that you (plural) have reached such a position, and that as a gesture of good-will you will hand over the files without obligation. State that the time spent on them was worth $273 to you, but acknowledge that they will never accept that. Say that you will acccept any payment they deem suitable for the entire project, and having done so, that you will consider the matter settled in its entirety.

You won't get $273 - decide what is the likely best outcome, and close the issue. I'd seriously consider giving them the files as a good-will gesture and walking away.

zaidf4• 16 years ago

I have given up recieving any more money from the amount owed and would not mind giving the files at this point just to get him off my back.

Unfortunately, it also doesn't seem like the client needs the original files anymore. Let me explain. Two weeks ago he offered $150 additional for the files. Clearly he found value in the work I had done so far. Now he has done a complete turnaround and argues that I just "strung along" and did not really do much work. That is obviously not consistent with him offering additional money two weeks ago for the originals.

A lot could have happened in the two weeks he was silent. He could have easily given the jpgs of my work which he did have to someone to recreate it in photoshop.

Thanks for the detailed analysis :)

bendmorris• 16 years ago

The best thing you can get out of this is a learning experience. As a freelancer, I always insisted that I don't work until I've been paid in advance. If that's a 50% initial down payment or a series of partial payments, get them first, then work toward the milestone they represent. Have them sign that these payments are non-refundable. It's so easy to get burned by clients refusing to pay, but if you have the money you have the power. If he had already paid you $300 and you decided he owed you $273 of it, you could give him back the $27 and call it done. If a client refuses to put down deposits in advance, I wouldn't trust them.

Some clients are jackasses - that's just a simple fact. I've noticed that the less you charge, the higher your chances of running into one. Fortunately, for small amounts it's pretty reasonable to ask for 50% down up front. It allows you a last resort. If you really can't come to an agreement, you can say I'm sorry, you're not living up to your end of the contract, and so I'm keeping your deposit and if you want to continue development we'll have to work out a separate agreement. I've had to do this a few times and while it's unfortunate at least I'm not out any money. At this point I generally give them all of the files and everything that's been produced up to that point and just ignore any more angry communications.

zaidf4• 16 years ago

It isn't really the client owing me money that bothers me so much as him being a jackass(and not knowing what crap he might try next). Longterm it isn't worth the $150 deposit he paid me.

Ideally I wish I could just give him his $150 back and chalk it up as a loss to a jackass but my wallet super bit tight right at this moment.

lukevdp• 16 years ago

At this point it sounds like he doesn't want the files and just wants a refund. My response would be:

"I'm sorry you feel that way. As per our initial agreement, the initial deposit is non refundable, and I will not be refunding any amount to you.

Best of luck with the project going forward.

Regards,

Yourname"

Ignore the clients bigoted rant, don't take it personally. He has shown a very unattractive side to himself.

Make sure to learn the lessons of the failed project and move on.

wenbert• 16 years ago

First the client is a prick. Do not deal with him in the future.

On the other hand, if I were in your position, I'd just give up the files. It will save a lot of trouble and the client will not give bad review about you. Still, it will be your loss. But do not worry, other clients will come. You can sort of "adjust" your fees to cope up with the lost money from the previous client -- or just deal with it like a businessman and accept the loss (time and money).

Think about the big picture. Is $150 (or even $500) worth it all?

kellishaver• 16 years ago

Please tell me you have a signed contract.

If you do, stick to that and tell him if he has any problems with it, he can speak to your attorney.

If not, suck it up and give him his money back. Maybe it's not "fair" to you, but he's being an ass and it's worth $150 to not have to deal with that, and you can consider it lesson learned about why you should always have a contract.

zaidf4• 16 years ago

Thanks all for your feedback. I replied to him offering to give him the files for $150, his original offer. Otherwise too bad--it probably means that he does not want the files and at that point even giving it away from free likely wouldn't change anything.

RiderOfGiraffes2• 16 years ago

It might - probably would - gain you at least a little good-will, or perhaps negate some of the bad will. There's more value in that than you might imagine, and costs you nothing.

dirktheman• 16 years ago

Just walk away. I've had personal experiences with these kind of douchebags, and I think it's better to stop wasting your time on these energy-sucking discussions. Inform him that you will not deal with his racial slurs, sever all connections and walk away with your pride and a valuable learning experience.

maxhenderson• 16 years ago

Honestly, if you want my opinion- tell him you'll give him the files, and take your $150. Then walk away and never speak to him again.

Benefits: you free up time, you get him off your back, and if he wants to take you to small claim court for $150, he can (but he won't). It's just not worth it.

Ask HN: Disgruntled client. How would you respond?

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