Intel microcode license updated to permit redistribution

https://01.org/mcu-path-license-2018

by rnhmjoj • 8 years ago

184 38 8 years ago

01.org

Gwaih1r• 8 years ago

I had a quick Google and couldn't find any published benchmarks yet. Does anyone know of one so far?

nikeee• 8 years ago

According to a German news article [0], Intel published benchmarks themselves [1].

[0] https://heise.de/-4144515

[1] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-tec...

kreetx• 8 years ago

Can anyone explain these graphs a bit. I.e the first one shows no impact what-so-ever, but are the benchmark conditions real-life-y enough?

mannykannot2• 8 years ago

Intel's attempt to suppress independent benchmarking suggests that this is not the whole story. This suspicion lingers even though it has removed the clause.

opencl• 8 years ago

This is all I've seen so far.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=l1tf-for...

mort96• 8 years ago

While interesting, those benchmarks are only for the kernel mitigations; they don't benchmark the new microcode:

Update: To note, no microcode changes/updates were made to the systems under test for this article, just testing/comparing the kernel patches.

forkerenok2• 8 years ago

Can anyone with background in law in some of EU member states share their take on enforceability of the DeWitt clause[0]?

I know it popped up quite a few times here, but very few commented on it in the context of EU.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_DeWitt

tpxl• 8 years ago

AFAIK EULA's are unenforcable in the EU.

Disclosure: IANAL

bunderbunder• 8 years ago

I doubt it's anywhere near that simple. The EU, being a loose confederation of independent countries that had all been doing their own things for a very long time before joining up, has a wildly heterogeneous legal environment.

Even in a single country like the US, whether a EULA will be considered enforceable depends heavily on a plethora of factors, including what court the case is being tried in.

majewsky2• 8 years ago

IANAL. This is not legal advice.

AFAIK, in Germany a EULA is enforceable. But if you are only presented with the EULA after having bought the product (e.g. if the software came on DVD in a shrink-wrapped box, so you couldn't look at the EULA at the store), you're entitled to a refund if you don't agree to the EULA.

mg794613• 8 years ago

Eula's are enforceble. However they need to adhere to some standards. For the Dutch for example;general eula aka 'algemene voorwaarden' can not be 'unfair' this is quite ubiquitous, but still you cannot suddenly put 'anything' in there. This specific case would not hold as it is not fair to the customer. (faulty hardware has been supplied and this firmware is nothing but a correction to their shortcoming) I'm sorry that I cannot give a more elaborate explanation of this. IANAL.

CaptainZapp• 8 years ago

The problem with enterprise software, such as data management software, where this clause is most often used, is that it doesn't come with an EULA, but with a full blown contract negotiated between the software manufacturer and the client.

Such contracts can run into dozens of pages and can be very specific.

It usually contains clauses specifying precisely what the customer is allowed to do with the software and what not.

A good example would be SAP, who sued Diageo for using the software in a way, which was not licensed. A court awarded the software provider north of 50'000'000 £ for allowing indirect access to the software[1]

If you think you're better off by using Oracle I have a license to sell you, but I digress.

Since those are full blown contracts negotiated between professional entities it's a quite safe bet that they are upheld by the courts.

[1] https://www.computerworlduk.com/it-vendors/sap-indirect-acce...

moron4hire• 8 years ago

A lawyer friend of mine one told me that his job was basically to try to see what he could sneak past the opposition's (his sentiment, not mine) lawyers in their contracts. He explained contracts are like a running game of tag for lawyers. "If they don't read it, fuck 'em".

He also said that all contracts are mutable. Just strike in red whatever you want, sign it, and send it back. If they don't object (for whatever reason, including not expecting a non-lawyer to do such a thing and never reading your reply), you've won this round of tag.

Then mentioning that 9/10 contract disputes get settled out of court meant the law didn't really matter, it's just what you can convince others about.

teekert• 8 years ago

Of course, you want some ground rules but you also don't want to be such an ass of a company that you loose customers/collaborators over petty things.

In my company we have a legal department sometimes making contracts that us researchers are ashamed of (we get to use all your samples, any IP is ours when generated during the duration of the contract by the people involved, etc), and then there is our wish to keep collaborating with the other party and keep all of us working happily together now and in the future. These things collide, contracts get ignored.

snaky• 8 years ago

That's a rules of the game. Every department want to grow its importance in the company, to get more power and resources. Well, sometimes this end up in failing company, but they have no choice - if dep X decide to stop it, other won't - and the company fail anyway, but with dep Y on the top instead, all the difference is who will have more power during some time - then the choice is clear and no department will stop their play.

matwood• 8 years ago

our wish to keep collaborating with the other party and keep all of us working happily together now and in the future

And typically, this is not when you need a good contract. When the relationship sours, you will be happy the lawyers did their job.

forkerenok2• 8 years ago

This reminded of a counter-exemplary story, A Tiny, $25 Million Mistake:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/09/16/348975479/a-ti...

Levine had always thought a contract was binding. Now he saw two big companies laugh off his little mistake. The other side agreed to revise the contract to pay the extra $25 million.
The whole experience surprised Levine. "I thought it was a game," he says. "You sort of score points. And they had scored this point through my fault, and they were going to get something for it."
Business may be a game, Levine realized, but it's not a one-time game. It's more like an infinite game. It's a game in which people have to live with each other, work with each other again, and perhaps, write another big contract.

Asooka• 8 years ago

Text-only link (no ads, no tracking): https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=348975479

JorgeGT• 8 years ago

There was a Russian chap that did this exactly this, modified his credit card contract and the bank happily signed the modified contract without reading it: https://www.nasdaq.com/article/updated-russian-man-turns-tab...

another-cuppa• 8 years ago

This is essentially how all business works. When I got my first job before I went to university I was very surprised to learn that accountants always pay invoices on the very last day of the terms rather than as soon as they can. Since everyone else is going to pay you as late as they poassibly can, if you pay your invoices as soon as you can you'll lose out in the long run.

The way everyone tries to get slightly more from other people than they give back is one of the things I dislike most about humans. I wish we had a system that punished such behaviour rather than rewarding it.

nerdponx2• 8 years ago

It's not hard to construct a "multi agent" version of the prisoners dilemma, in which only one prisoner defecting would cause every prisoner to defect.

ams6110• 8 years ago

It's often not that they're really trying to screw the vendor, but that their cash flow doesn't allow immediate payment.

A lot of commercial invoices have payment terms like "2/10, net 30" meaning you can take a 2% discount if you pay within 10 days. The cost of not taking this deal is an effective 35% annualized interest rate, so it's a big incentive to pay early, assuming your cash flow allows it.

phkahler• 8 years ago

> When I got my first job before I went to university I was very surprised to learn that accountants always pay invoices on the very last day of the terms rather than as soon as they can.

I was told one company I worked at held off payment beyond the terms - waiting until we owed enough to be worth their bother. The problem was that one guy was trying to order parts to build some prototypes for a customer and they refused to do anything until they got paid. Our sales efforts were being hindered by people refusing to do their jobs - i.e. pay suppliers.

falcor84• 8 years ago

Just to save others the two minutes of googling I just went through, apparently the MCU in the title stands for "Microcontroller Unit" (and not "Marvel Cinematic Universe" as per my original thought).

Maakuth• 8 years ago

I think 'microcode update' is what is meant here.

iosDrone• 8 years ago

Marvel Cinematic Universe?

majewsky2• 8 years ago

I would watch the hell out of the Intel MCU. The story line about the Avengers getting in trouble for "speculative destruction" practically writes itself.

bubblethink• 8 years ago

The bigger news is that they've applied the license to FSP too. Great news for coreboot.

https://mail.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2018-August/087...

Intel microcode license updated to permit redistribution

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