Ask HN: Would you tell potential employers about your "sketchy" projects?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1702872

by coryl • 16 years ago

19 13 16 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Hi HN, I face a dilemma in wondering if I should include "sketchy" projects into my resume. By sketchy, I mean that they may offend someone of a particular set, but are otherwise (in my opinion) brilliant executions that I'm proud of. I've never done anything illegal, and I like to think I have a solid base of ethics.

For example, when I was around 17, I picked up a trademarked domain for a popular music group from expiry (they didn't own it prior, was just a holding page for non-related topic). I built an unofficial fan site with pics, lyrics, and news content. It was also optimized towards adsense (20+% CTR), pushed affiliate sales for "bling" jewelry products and eventually signed a 1-year $1k/month advertising deal with my affiliate. I offered email service, networked with other hip hop sites, and made about $100k from adsense before I was graciously C&D'd and handed the name over.

Most recently I cofounded a project that was covered on the sites of TIME, CBS, Business Insider, Gawker, and pending an ABC News article. It made the front page of HN as well (thanks guys). That site was Price Of Weed, where we crowdsource and share information about the price people pay for marijuana. Possession is still illegal in most of the world; its easy to assume I'm some sort of stoner/drug pusher because I'm associated with this project, but in reality I don't smoke much at all.

Now I'm a biz guy and probably won't be applying to jobs at big corporations. I'd really like to work for a startup, which I believe would be less judgmental and more accepting of my project history. If you were me, would you stick these projects on your resume? What are your own experiences with sharing this kind of information with potential employers? Thanks

Swizec• 16 years ago

> brilliant executions that I'm proud of. I've never done anything illegal

This bit answers your own question. List them.

If the employer gets their panties twisted in a bunch just because what you did might be considered a little sketchy then they aren't worth employing a real hacker. Don't be ashamed of your achievements, celebrate them.

michael_dorfman• 16 years ago

If it were me, I'd definitely put "Price of Weed" on the CV-- it's a clever app, that puts together interesting information, and I don't think it implies that you are a stoner. I've got a friend who is a network admin on a big gay hookup site; that doesn't imply he's gay.

The other case is a bit more complicated. In principle, an unofficial fan site for a band sound great-- unless it's clear to the reader of the CV that you knew the domain name was trademarked and that you were just biding time before a C&D-- this looks opportunistic to me (and not in a good way.)

SRSimko• 16 years ago

Wow, you don't ask the easy questions do you. I would say, yes big corporations are out of the mix. As far as startups go it will depend not all will be accepting of your past ventures. However, some will think you are very creative and know an opportunity when they see it.

If I were you, the truth is always the easiest path, if you choose not to bring it up you can get fired. It's also a lot less stressful. Just be very ready to talk about it and show why.

The only other thing I will add is you will have to understand that not every startup will be accepting and roll with the punches. I truly believe that if you are honest you will be given a chance.

Best of luck

jimlyndon• 16 years ago

The very idea of a "Weed" site may even turn off small companies. See if you can reword it and stay away from any details that might label you "pro-marijana" until you have a phone or face to face with the hiring manager and can explain. I don't think the other site would be any problem at all, as I would definitely list it.

il• 16 years ago

I've seen your posts on WF- price of weed is probably the most legitimate/least sketchy project discussed on there.

So it depends on the industry and company. If,as I assume, you're looking for a job in the performance marketing space, nobody will bat an eye about your projects.

If you're working for an agency that does branding, that would be a different story. But, really, who wants to work for an agency?

davidu• 16 years ago

I wouldn't be bothered seeing any of this on a resume. In fact, would you please send me a resume? We have a fun role for clever people like you. :-)

b0o• 16 years ago

the "weed" word might not be a good idea, but if you explain your technical accomplishments while working on that website and how it can be applied to the company you're interested in working for in order to make it as popular as the "weed" website, then you might have a chance. Or you can just not mention it at all.

dotBen• 16 years ago

Regardless of whether you are forward about it in your resume, there are two things to consider that you havn't mentioned:

1) The actual issue is not whether you should mention it on a but whether a potential employer would have an issue if they knew/found out you had built one of these sites. The subtle difference is that even if you don't disclose on your resume, you need to consider whether they would be ok if they found out post-hire. You might say "yeah I didn't mention it because it wasn't relevant to my candidacy" but you should consider that they might have an issue and what the consequences might be... ostracized and thus sidelined for promotion by management, even loose your job perhaps, etc. (I personally would hope not, but that is the crux of your dilemma in your OP is that others might)

2) Even if its not on the resume you probably need + should disclose all of the projects you are working on during the interview/negotiation stage because most employment contracts will ask you to disclose any possible conflict of interest + you will want to ring-fence your IP so that they can't claim your next venture started post-hire belongs to them (see also http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1685431)

When I was 17 I ran a pretty successful free email site in the UK called fuckyou.co.uk. I tried to apply to IBM's early-intake (ie non-university) entry route for aspiring developers.

The technical interviewers thought it was great, the non-tech HR people were very concerned. I made it to the final few candidates but I think the site was a blip on my evaluation forms and ultimately may have cost me a place there. 12 years later I'm hardly crying over not getting into IBM but it's fair to say it closed doors to the corporate software world (yay!)

wccrawford• 16 years ago

No. I won't even tell my current employer.

I wrote a simple site with a very sketchy name. Many of us work used the site, even at work. My immediate boss knew of the site (and used it) but it went no further than that... And only because we knew he'd be cool with it.

If I ever put it in my portfolio, I'll change any of the code that references the name and not say where it's currently hosted. But I probably just won't mention it.

mrlyc• 16 years ago

I wouldn't mention the weed site as potential employers would wonder if you'd come to work stoned.

As for the fan site, don't say how you got the domain name. Just say that you set up an unofficial fan site, listing all the features and business deals. Instead of saying "before I was graciously C&D'd and handed the name over", just say the band's management or record company liked the site so much that they decided to make it official (if it's still running) or incorporate the features into their own site (if it isn't).

sentinel• 16 years ago

If I were you, I would stick them in my resume. They are your projects. You put time and effort into them and made something happen. Even though they may seem spam-ish, they did bring revenue and since you made them when you were 17, I for one, would understand that 'experimental' phase of web development. I guess I would also look a bit different at the situation if you made those websites when you were 25 or something.

The weed price thing is just briliant, and if a person doesn't see the beauty in that, then it's their problem, not yours. In the end, you also have to decide what type of people you want to work with.

If they don't share your vision for a project you've done (or if they think that's childish etc.) then maybe they're not worth your time. You're not going to see eye to eye on this issue, then there will be a lot of other issues in the long run that will cause dissagrements between you two.

Deadsunrise• 16 years ago

reminds me to this: http://xkcd.com/137/

udfalkso• 16 years ago

My side-project, http://isitnormal.com, was one of the reasons that I got a fantastic job as an early member of the Yahoo! Answers team. Is It Normal certainly passes the "sketchy" test, and it was even much more sketchy back in the day, but it happened to be relevant experience. In fact, at my first interview, my interviewer took one look at my resume and proceeded to cross out my education and previous work history, leaving behind 2 lonely links at the bottom "projects" section. She circled those links, said, "tell me about these."

Any good employer, especially at a startup, will respect the fact that you took initiative and created something out of nothing. They'll value the creativity and cunning that it shows that you have. If you're proud of your work, you shouldn't hide it.

Ask HN: Would you tell potential employers about your "sketchy" projects?

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