Ask HN: Should I disclose that I am working on a startup in a job interview?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1685166

by olalonde • 16 years ago

17 14 16 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I recently found a kick-ass telecommute job that could help me finance my startup while I bootstrap. I'd like to be honest with my potential employer about my startup project but I am afraid it might play against me. I don't want them to believe the startup is going to overlap on the job but at the same time, I wonder if it could demonstrate that I am motivated and really love what I do as a developer.

PS: The said company operates in a totally different market so there's absolutely no risk of competition with my startup.

So, should I disclose that I work on a startup in my free time?

patio11• 16 years ago

If you hypothetically pull a Facebook here, do you want someone coming out of the woodwork eight years down the line with a credible claim that they own your core IP? No? Then disclose and get explicit assurance that they do not, in fact, own your IP.

staunch• 16 years ago

A lawyer could tell you what steps to take to protect yourself. Probably all that's required is to extensively document the hell out of everything.

tptacek3• 16 years ago

Yes. You have to, because you're going to need exclusions from your IP contract.

If your prospective employer is an established company, you should also be aware that --- right or wrong, frivolous or not --- the mere filing of a lawsuit against you down the road stands a good chance of killing your startup. Lawsuits are spectacularly expensive, and they take f o r e v e r.

Even 1099 contractors --- people that aren't even technically employees! --- can fall ass-backwards into situations where clients end up with legal influence over personal projects (this is why you need your NDA's and "standard contracting agreements" reviewed by an attorney). This isn't an area to mess around in.

You may be thinking that this is low risk, but this is a great example of common pattern of deceptively terrible risk: the kind that only matters if your startup ends up mattering.

dotBen• 16 years ago

This is good advice, but there is two ways to go about it:

What normally happens, esp for employees (rather than 1099'ers) is that you disclose that you are working on your social network for farm animals (or whatever) and your employer in the CRM space agrees a clause that says that all work you do in the "farm animal social networking" space is yours.

However, you've a) had to disclose what you are specifically working on and b) this doesn't cover you if you then subsequently discover or design something in another space entirely.

Rather than agreeing all IP is your employer's and then jointly negating your own project, what would be better would be a closer ring fencing of what is theirs and you keeping control of everything else.

You would still need to declare any conflicts of interest, but I doubt a social network for farm animals would be a conflict for a CRM server and thus you might never need to disclose.

All of the above requires some careful lawyering and also assumes that you have the leverage to write/re-write your employment contract. Ideally this is best when you are negotiating at the start of the job.

But never assume that just cos an employer gives you are 'boiler plate' contract you can't cross it out and redefine your own terms - regardless of the size of the company. It just depends on your ability to negotiate and leverage.

tl;dr: don't ring fence out your IP, ring-fence out your employer's IP and own the rest.

-- UPDATE: not everyone in life comes up with startup ideas and needs to consider IP issues. If you are that kind of person, which it sounds like you are, then consider whether being an employee makes sense for you at all (it doesn't for me for these reasons, which is why I've not been once since 2006).

Don't be afraid to take the same job but negotiate a 1099 contract instead which gives you greater freedoms (although you need to talk to your accountant to make sure your total business activities ensure the IRS agrees you are a 1099 status and not a W2). If a company needs a developer and you are good they shouldn't care what the paperwork looks like for you.

tptacek3• 16 years ago

I agree with all of this. I hope I didn't make it sound like he shouldn't take a job. All I've got to say here is, don't play games with your IP.

kleinsch• 16 years ago

I'm actually working on a blog post about this now, but don't have it done...

Having gone through this process twice, if the employer has a decent lawyer at all, they're not going to go along with "fencing of what is theirs and you keeping control of everything else". If they have decent lawyers, they're probably also going to object to altering a boiler plate contract, since setting it up and getting the terms right probably cost them a good amount of money. In most cases, the most palatable suggestion is to get a document together carving out certain areas that will belong to you (farm animal social networking), but you'll have to ask for more documentation if you come up ideas in other areas.

With any legal issue, the most important thing is to get a loose agreement face-to-face before getting the lawyers involved. If you go straight to the legal paperwork, you'll waste a bunch of your and their money on redlines and legal arguments. Get in a room with your future boss or the CEO and make sure they're OK with you working on a startup and that they're willing to help you legally protect it. If they're not on board, you're wasting your time. I once made the mistake of going to lawyers before checking on those things and it cost me a lot of money when they decided two months later that they weren't willing to amend the IP contract.

I agree 100% with the suggestion to negotiate a 1099, as the contract for that already takes care of limiting IP better than a full time contract.

thucydides• 16 years ago

No. If you're dating around, do you tell your first dates that you have other girlfriends?

Later, if you actually get the job and you see the contract steals your IP, mention your discomfort with signing away your IP. Say that you work on side projects from home.

tptacek3• 16 years ago

Should he tell them in the interview? Who cares? But once he gets the job, he doesn't get to play games anymore. His mention of "discomfort" and "side projects at home" will do absolutely nothing to help him when his (ex-?)employer decides to sue him.

Is he going to get sued? No, unless his startup actually comes to something.

integraleq• 16 years ago

You should always be honest. If you are worried about them thinking that the startup will interfere with your work at the company, just be consistent in doing what you say you will do and do not do startup stuff when you should be working. Between that and full disclosure, you should be just fine.

japherwocky• 16 years ago

I'd add, if you're morally OK with not telling them, it's to your personal advantage not to. But I wouldn't call it honest.

vanessa• 16 years ago

You'll need to tell the employer before signing any paperwork, for sure, but you don't necessarily need to mention it in your first or second interview unless it comes up. I'm not suggesting you deceive the employer, just that you can take time to evaluate them and let them evaluate you for your skills before providing details on your off-time projects. If they discount you for being passionate enough about development to start your own, non-competitive thing on the side, they're probably not a great fit for you.

j_baker• 16 years ago

Should you disclose that you're working on a startup before accepting the job? Yes. Do you need to disclose it during the interview? I would say that you don't necessarily have to as long as you aren't dishonest about it.

jdavid• 16 years ago

"Work for Hire" laws very depending on where you are, and where the company you are contracting is from.

Get proper legal advice, but you don't have to be totally open with them, just state that you have other projects. You don't need to tell them if they are for other clients or personal, and you don't need to tell them that you may start a company.

They should be fine with this unless they are making you an employee.

Some states like Wisconsin make it hard for companies to hire 1099 contractors and, so when I worked for Manpower, I was required to become an employee even though I was contracting for them, because I was billing hourly and I was my only employee.

bjoernlasseh• 16 years ago

Of course nobody wants to hear that you are working on a startup in your free time while you are working at their company ...

Ask HN: Should I disclose that I am working on a startup in a job interview?

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