Japan's older hikikomori live in isolation, shunning society for years

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/03/21/national/social-issues/japans-older-hikikomori-live-isolation-shunning-society-years/

by pmoriarty • 8 years ago

66 33 8 years ago

japantimes.co.jp

mgamache• 8 years ago

I am not Japanese, I can only marvel at the complexity and subtleness of Japanese culture. But I sort of get it, you start interacting with anyone and it opens you up to the pressure and the questions and with Enryo you can't really talk openly and be accepted. Would these people be happier living outside of Japan?

ohiovr2• 8 years ago

I'm not japanese so I don't know. But I know that human beings are intensely social creatures and being alone, even if in self exile must be painful. The pain they have must be less than the pain they feel being around others. Some would probably consider going to other lands but sounds like they don't have money for the option. The $25 million the japanese government needs for them sounds like a really small number for nearly half a million of them..

I do well in the states but I think I could relate to what they did in Japan since Japan places such huge amounts of value on honor and self success. It sounds like a double edge sword. It's good to have a society that values success but leaving about half a percent of the population as shut ins doesn't seem right.

wanda5• 8 years ago

But I know that human beings are intensely social creatures and being alone, even if in self exile must be painful.

I'm not diagnosed as autistic or as a psychopath, but I'm really not a very emotional or social person. I take great pleasure in being alone, far from the madding crowd, and I find it much more difficult to be among other people, mandating the menagerie of masks necessary for me to get where I want to go in society w.r.t. my career etc. I say masks, because unlike many people I seem to meet, I do not have any enthusiasm for consumption, decadence and self-gratification.

I mean, I'm no buddhist or anarchist, I just prefer to perfect my craft over going out on the town or accumulating wealth I'll never use. I'm happy with cereal, I don't need some kind of smoked dolphin's nose on squid-ink dyed seventy-seed toast. I therefore have to act in a certain way, other than as myself, in order to be perceived to be relating to people I meet and work with.

In reality, you might call me a stoic, to use a loose definition of the term. I don't find it painful to act like someone I'm fundamentally not, indeed to act in an archetype I internally find rather absurd, but it is tiresome. It tires me greatly to be among other people, and I try to keep my relationships with others to a minimum. I have nothing to hide, I just prefer to spend time in solitary and uninterrupted recreation or study, refining skills and knowledge of topics I find interesting.

I'm not disagreeing with you, and I'm not saying that my individual existence is a significant indicator of anything contrary to your point, but my existence does at least indicate that some humans (since I find it difficult to believe I am alone) aren't as intensely social or pained by isolation as you say – and I dare say there's more than a little overlap between the set of asocial humans and the set of self-isolating hikikomori who prefer no company at all.

Though, in my experience on anonymous message boards over the past fifteen years online, hikikomori (or at least the western equivalent) seem to prefer the company of others like themselves whom they may encounter on said message boards. Or some certainly act like they prefer the imagined company of anime/video game characters to the company of other human beings, most of whom will never, ever come close to understanding them or what they're about.

ionised2• 8 years ago

But I know that human beings are intensely social creatures and being alone, even if in self exile must be painful.

Not everyone fits that mould though, and plenty of people actively seek out solitude because it is pleasurable.

vgf• 8 years ago

At a previous temporary job posting in northern Europe/Scandinavia I worked with some Japanese men and women (three individuals in total) - all fantastic people by the way, I still regard myself an active/actual friend of all of them - who all basically first went there as part of a student exchange program and then realized/thought they would be happier there than back in Japan and then made an explicit decision to stay and try to get jobs.

I discussed this topic in varying degrees with these people. The message was relatively uniform: they didn't think the Japanese work culture was healthy and what they had witnessed studying in Scandinavia encouraged them to stay there. After a while they made an explicit decision to try build their life there. They had been there for like 5-10 years already when I met them; two had families with young kids and one was still dating.

This kind of "escape" requires quite strong language skills though. And social skills.

Of course these individuals were preselected in various ways, like

1) attempting to go study abroad in a Scandinavian country (that in itself is a fairly extreme decision in Japan, I have been led to believe)

2) deciding to stay

3) getting a position in the multi-national company I was temporarily working at

So I'm definitely not saying all Japanese people feel this way. But still I feel it's relevant to note this kind of escape for Japanese people who feel they are not cut out for the traditional way of doing things.

fzeroracer• 8 years ago

I believe so, yes. Japan currently has an incredibly lonely culture that results not in the hikikomori trend we see but also elderly people purposely getting arrested so that they can have more of a social life [1].

So you have people at all fringes of society either withdrawing from it, or desperate to find somewhere to belong.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-16/japan-s-p...

huangc103• 8 years ago

"There are more than half a million hikikomori in Japan — according to the latest government survey published in 2016 — defined as people who have stayed home for more than six months without going to school or work and interacting with no one other than family."

One question for the hikikomori. If they don't work, how do they get money? I'm sure they can live relatively inexpensive lives but how do they get money to pay for rent? Does he work remotely? Bitcoin investments? So many questions...

maxerickson• 8 years ago

Many of them are staying at their parents still.

mettamage• 8 years ago

I actually think more or less similar developments are happening in the US and Europe. Instead of the specific term hikikomori, they call it an extended adolescence or something similar. Though, 'extended adolescents' do not necessarily shun society. They do live with their parents in most cases, from my own experience at least.

Having said that I may be completely off base here since I do not know Japanese culture well enough.

HumanDrivenDev2• 8 years ago

It's fairly normal for east asian adults to still live with their parents. What's not so normal is not working, studying, or leaving the house.

dingleberry• 8 years ago

Ikeida lives mainly on social benefits but also makes a little money by writing online articles from his room.

huangc103• 8 years ago

thanks, I missed that part from the article.

buf2• 8 years ago

I believe a lot of the fear of hikikomori can be resolved by working remotely.

I'm an American who spent only 5 years working in an office before coming to the conclusion that it wasn't for me. I spend most of my time working from home these days, with the occasional trip to San Francisco to make an appearance at HQ.

Because I still contribute to society, my relationship with my wife stay strong, I am able to socialize without anxiety, and depression from conforming to office society is long passed.

I still shun society in many other ways. I disagree with some schooling systems, most political systems, and others beyond the scope of this comment, but working from home gives me the willpower to make compromises.

buf2• 8 years ago

Hikikomori are a result of Japanese salaryman-esque jobs. In order to heal hikikomori, you first need to evolve work.

RayVR• 8 years ago

I think you’re basically proposing that someone with a cold should get rid of their runny nose to fix their headache.

aerialcombat• 8 years ago

Personally the sad part is that I wouldn’t mind living like him given my current life situations.

Japan's older hikikomori live in isolation, shunning society for years

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