Graal: How to use the new JVM JIT compiler in real life [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhtrRhNUHvQ

by pjmlp • 8 years ago

128 39 8 years ago

sandGorgon6• 8 years ago

The JVMCI code that Graal depends on was added to Java 9 and is inbuilt. However, all Graal and Graal-downstream projects use a custom built Java 8 release. This is also the plan for the "foreseeable future" (https://github.com/oracle/truffleruby/issues/556#issuecommen...)

It looks like a bureaucratic struggle of some kind - I wonder what's the behind the scenes story at Oracle.

Additionally, "mx" : the build system that Graal uses is fairly funky - and everyone including Chris (the engineer that made this video) is trying to get the team to move on

https://twitter.com/christhalinger/status/958824900004753408...

I wish they would use Bazel or something

pjmlp6• 8 years ago

Nothing, beyond the herculean effort that is to add a new JIT compiler, while keeping up everything else running without regressions.

Graal's work is well known since the days of MaxineVM.

Hopefully eventually everything will be sorted out.

For similar comparison, Microsoft is also having multiple year/releases effort with RyuJIT, .NET Native and CoreRT.

Thankfully Bazel is mostly restrained to Googleplex stuff.

It is already a pain on Android, measured in cups of coffee/tea per developer, that they went with Gradle instead of Maven.

sandGorgon6• 8 years ago

bazel is not used on android because it came later. However, lots of startups are using it to build both their android+ios apps in production in CI/CD. here's the android toolchain - https://docs.bazel.build/versions/master/tutorial/android-ap...

that's a bit of fud that it is restricted to googleplex, not sure why you would say that.

https://github.com/bazelbuild/bazel/wiki/Bazel-Users - bazel is being used at tons of places including Dropbox, Asana, Etsy, Huawei, Pinterest, Uber, etc. for multiple languages - Java, Rust, Golang, C++, etc.

Again - I'm not sure why you are mentioning about a "new JIT compiler". Graal on Java 9 works - if you check a ton of documentation, everyone is talking about using Graal on Java 9 (self-built). E.g. http://chrisseaton.com/rubytruffle/jokerconf17/

I'm talking about Oracle + Graal project not putting out Java 9 based releases because of a co-ordination effort.

matharmin• 8 years ago

I've use the unofficial Android Maven plugin before the official Gradle plugin was released. When the Gradle plugin came out, it made my builds so much simpler than it used to be with Maven. As much as I like XML, having 4 lines per dependency is way too much. And having to write a custom plugin every time you want some custom logic is terrible. The Maven ecosystem may have increased since then, but I'm very glad they chose Gradle over Maven.

grashalm016• 8 years ago

Graal dev here. We're testing on jdk 8,9,10 and 11. We are packing graalvm with jdk 8 atm to keep variability reasonable. Graal will be integrated into the JVM soon with project Metropolis: http://openjdk.java.net/projects/metropolis/

Graal is used for many more things than dynamically compiling Java. Besides others it's used for SubstrateVM (closed world AOT compilation) and Truffle languages like TruffleRuby, Graal.JS, FastR, Sulong(llvm integration) and our newest member Graal.Python.

Graal comes out of Oracle Labs. The build tool mx is short for Maxine, the spiritual predecessor of the Graal project. If you don't know mx it's quite intimidating and ugly. It's Python written by Java developers. But it does it's job coping with our not so standard building and testing requirements. No we don't run mx on Graal.Python yet, but we are working on it for full build tool metacircularity ;).

AlphaSite3• 8 years ago

Why not Graal.py?

sitkack3• 8 years ago

Vendoring the JDK is a much better use of resources than chasing compatibility, esp for a research project.

Is Graal.Python related to Zippy [0,1] ?

[0] https://github.com/securesystemslab/zippy

[1] http://socalpls.github.io/archive/2013nov/slides/zippy.pdf

sandGorgon6• 8 years ago

Hi - thank you so much for posting here. Please please get rid of MX. Please move to a better build tool - you will pull the ecosystem with you. And people will help you with that.

Secondly - I have not seen Graal Python anywhere. Is there a repo ? The GitHub project seems centred around Truffleruby. Graal Python would be awesome!

ZenoArrow• 8 years ago

Does Graal VM work on Windows yet? That was the main factor that held me back from using it the last time I evaluated it.

pjmlp6• 8 years ago

Windows support will be made available on Java 10.

https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8172670

tinco• 8 years ago

Weird I remember running Graal on Windows a couple of years ago, was Windows support dropped along the way?

PyComfy• 8 years ago

Does Graal support tail call optimization? It has been announced for hotspot +10 years ago but still not implemented as today.

edit: https://blogs.oracle.com/jrose/tail-calls-in-the-vm

grashalm016• 8 years ago

When executing on Java we are dependent on hotspot to support it in the native bytecode interpreter. In truffle interpreters we made some successful experiments with tail calls emulated using exceptions. It's pretty slow in the interpreter but as soon as graal optimizes it, it just turns into a tailcall loop. Here is some more info: http://epub.jku.at/obvulihs/content/pageview/508465

You may find some blog posts about truffle and tailcalls as well.

aardvark179• 8 years ago

You may see support for tail calls added as part of project loom.

Graal: How to use the new JVM JIT compiler in real life [video]

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