Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2213767-dutch-intelligence-first-to-alert-u-s-about-russian-hack-of-democratic-party.html

by HHend • 8 years ago

236 55 8 years ago

nos.nl

apexalpha2• 8 years ago

Apparently Dutch intel had pretty deep access into the Russian systems. Going so far as even screenshotting people's faces as they appear on their security cameras.

Read this article; an in depth analasys directly from source.: https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-cruci...

Seriously, everyone here will find this a fascinating read. It's almost like a thriller.

From the article:

Using so-called command and control servers, digital command centres, the Russians attempt to establish a connection to the malware in the Department, in order to request and transfer information. The Americans, having been told by the Dutch where the servers are, repeatedly and swiftly cut off access to these servers, followed each time by another attempt by the Russians. It goes back and forth like this for 24 hours. Afterwards, sources tell CNN that this was 'the worst hack attack ever' on the American government. The Department has to cut off access to the e-mail system for a whole weekend in order to upgrade the security.

Luckily, the NSA was able to find out the means and tactics of their attackers, deputy director of the NSA Richard Ledgett states at a discussion forum in Aspen in March 2017. 'So we could see how they were changing their methods. That's very useful information.' On the authority of intelligence services, American media write that this was thanks to a 'western ally'. Eventually, the Americans manage to dispel the Russians from the Department, but not before Russian attackers use their access to send an e-mail to a person in the White House.

redlum1• 8 years ago

Here is the English version of that article: https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-cruci...

apexalpha2• 8 years ago

Didn't know there was an English translation. Would've been better to submit this link.

the-dude3• 8 years ago

Almost sounds too good to be true.

Maarten88• 8 years ago

I'm actually impressed by our AIVD. Being Dutch, I always assumed our intelligence service were sheep in a world of wild animals; SAP consultants among elite hackers.

This shows I was wrong, they seem to be actually competent and doing good work. Maybe I'll even rethink my opinion on the dragnet surveillance law that we will be voting on...

jacquesm2• 8 years ago

AIVD is very impressive. It is nowhere near as well funded as foreign intelligence services but they are at the top of their game.

That should not change your opinion on the dragnet surveillance though, especially because that will simply increase the size of the haystack with the same number of needles and so will take attention away from things that urgently require it. Dragnet surveillance is a net negative when you are resource constrained.

Another Dutch official entity that has my admiration is the anti-child porn division, they are quite capable and deal with some of the worst stuff the internet has to offer.

rollulus• 8 years ago

A few years ago I participated in the AIVD's cyber challenge. It involved reverse engineering an executable, spotting a flaw in the (custom) crypto algorithm which made it brute-forcable and then finally going to some train station where a final clue was hidden. After that, we, the people who solved the puzzle (5 or 6 iirc) were invited to the AIVD offices for a chat with the authors and a bit of PR and a tour through the museum (during which the big boss offered jobs (whispering) to a few of us). I was impressed by their skills, never expected that from government people really.

davedx• 8 years ago

I checked their website this morning and they're hiring too. :)

pdpi• 8 years ago

It’s slightly paradoxical that we can recognise the competent intelligence outfits, but the elite are, by nature of their work, indistinguishable from the timidly inept

hencq• 8 years ago

Maybe I'll even rethink my opinion on the dragnet surveillance law that we will be voting on...

I wouldn't be surprised if the upcoming referendum on that dragnet law has something to do with this news coming out now.

IntronExon• 8 years ago

If you don’t have a giant military force, national security starts to critically depend on intelligence.

BrandoElFollito• 8 years ago

This is almost a rule in Europe.

The visible part of these organizations (head, management and recommendations) are pitiful or plain outrageous (recommendations are usually years behind the reality, which contrasts with recent NIST posture).

At the same time, the regular folks are usually surprisingly good, open and forward - thinking. They either work in the dark or have propositions which never reach the top.

When I say "surprisingly", it is because that are statistically better than their counterparts in the private sector, and are payed way less.

wepple• 8 years ago

To be honest, this is very standard tradecraft to security folks.

If this kind of thing is interesting, I’d recommend a read of Kim Zetters “countdown to zero day” about stuxnet. A piece of malware potentially as old as 2005, but an order of magnitude more sophisticated than what’s being described with the DNC

bpicolo• 8 years ago

For years, Painter was responsible for America's cyber policy. He resigned last August. "We'd never expected that the Russians would do this, attacking our vital infrastructure and undermining our democracy."

Is he just lying in the worst attempt to cover ass, or is he actually just that bad at his job?

ThomPete5• 8 years ago

so this is back in 2014? long before the election.

empath75• 8 years ago

They started investigating the group in 2014 but the hacking continued up through the election.

ThomPete5• 8 years ago

But if they knew it was going on it can hardly have been relevant for the election.

nl4• 8 years ago

It's not completely surprising the Dutch were looking into Cozy Bear.

The Dutch led the investigation into the MH17 shoot-down, and Russian misinformation groups (of which Cozy Bear was one) have been working hard on that, too.

the-dude3• 8 years ago

Apparently this started before the MH17 shootdown.

nl4• 8 years ago

Yes, read-reading it it looks like you are right.

m12k• 8 years ago

Do you see a date anywhere? All I could read in the article was that JSCU was launched in 'the summer of 2014' and received a tip about Cozy Bear that same summer. And MH17 was shot down July 17, 2014, so it seems like it depends entirely on a precise date for that tip whether it happened before or after the shootdown.

Cthulhu_• 8 years ago

Now I wonder if the US, as a return favor, shared their intel on the MH17 incident too. I mean that was an actual act of physical aggression by the Russians where citizens died - something that hasn't happened between Russia and the US, well, ever.

willvarfar• 8 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 ?

gandhium• 8 years ago

US, as a return favor, shared their intel on the MH17 incident too.

As I can remember US told the world that it MH-17 was shot by a missile (not Ukrainian jet, as Russia tried to imply for months) and most probably Russian missile - and all of it almost immediately after the tragedy.

gamesbrainiac• 8 years ago

I just want to say, The Netherlands Second.

SEJeff• 8 years ago

EVERYONE GETS A STROOPWAFEL!

GVIrish2• 8 years ago

This revelation brings a lot of things into focus for me. One, is that it finally sheds light onto that very large and disruptive attack on State Dept back in 2014. It was assumed it was a state actor, and now we know it was Russia.

Secondly is how important our allies are in this new era of clandestine cyber-warfare. Who knows how much damage that attack could've done without AIVD's assistance.

Third is that allied intelligence agencies are probably playing a significant role in unraveling the Trump/Russia scandal. Maybe a lot of the intel won't be declassified for some time, but I have to think that the Special Counsel has received tips from our NATO and FVEY partners that will help them crack the case.

jacquesm2• 8 years ago

You have no idea how much damage the Trump administration has done to America's relations abroad.

eropple• 8 years ago

I am reasonably sure that most Americans you'd talk you somewhere like HN are aware.

Even if they pretend they aren't.

GVIrish2• 8 years ago

I shudder to think about the lasting damage to America's reputation this administration has caused, and what the geopolitical implications of that may be.

I think the political instability of the US will create strategic opportunities for other nations like China to fill, not to mention that it will reduce America's persuasiveness on all sorts of global matters.

Trust is an enormously valuable thing that is often undervalued until it is gone. Unfortunately I think the loss of trust others have in the United States (which didn't start with Trump) is going to create major difficulties for some time to come.

I do however think that once this situation is put to rest, our strongest alliances will hold, and hopefully we can start behaving like a trusted partner again.

StanislavPetrov• 8 years ago

Our many illegal wars, global campaign of drone assassinations, black sites and torture camps destroyed our reputation among everyone with a shred of awareness and morality long before Trump came along.

exabrial• 8 years ago

I still don't understand this analysis: https://theforensicator.wordpress.com/guccifer-2-ngp-van-met... Which points to a USB transfer.

Or I'm guessing there were multiple hacks?

the_why_of_y• 8 years ago

This article is based on the assumption that the internet is slower than it measurably is.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14998421

montrose2• 8 years ago

Notice what's at the very end. The head of Dutch intelligence says that because Trump is president, he shares less with the US:

"AIVD director Bertholee stated that he is extra careful when it comes to sharing intelligence with the U.S., now that Donald Trump is President."

The mere fact that Trump is president is harming US security. And the head of Dutch intelligence is willing to say so publicly. That is pretty striking.

plandis• 8 years ago

That's what Trumps supporters want though, right? As much isolation from the outside world as possible. His supporters probably see this as MAGA-ing:-/

microtonal• 8 years ago

I think he is implicitly saying that the problem with the Trump administration is that they tend to 'blurt out' sensitive information.

If this is really true:

As of now, the AIVD hackers do not seem to have access to Cozy Bear any longer. Sources suggest that the openness of US intelligence sources, who in 2017 praised the help of a Western ally in news stories, may have ruined their operation. The openness caused great anger in The Hague and Zoetermeer.

That'd quite a catastrophic/dumb mistake.

52-6F-623• 8 years ago

There was also the instance of Trump sharing Israeli intelligence with the Russian ambassador when they visited the White House. (in the meeting where Trump blocked all American press, and only allowed a Russian photographer into the room)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump...

davidw2• 8 years ago

I think he's implicitly saying that Trump is a Russian asset.

GrumpyNl• 8 years ago

This news comes at a very peculiar time and thats why i dont trust it. Yes i believe they are capable of the hack but the news comes at the best time for the aivd and the best time for the Clinton camp with deep state under research. Have to see how this develops

mi100hael• 8 years ago

I'm curious about timelines here. This article states the Dutch notified the US of the intrusions in the summer of 2015, but a lot of emails leaked were from 2016. Either the 2016 emails were from a separate hack or the Russians were inexplicably allowed to continue to operate for a full year.

Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

Related Stories