Kindle vs. iPad Displays: Up close and personal

by pistoriusp • 16 years ago

275 75 16 years ago

wazoox3• 16 years ago

And everybody should see why and how eInk devices (Kindle, Sony PRS, etc) are hundred times better tools to read books and papers.

rauljara• 16 years ago

Be careful with the word 'everybody'. Surely someone would prefer higher contrast, the ability to change foreground/background color, and faster page turning (without that annoying black flash) over crisper text.

Me? I still prefer print. Though I imagine that much like my preference for CDs over mp3s, my preference for print is doomed to die out over the next few years as the technology improves and I slowly get over my nostalgia.

zootm2• 16 years ago

This is definitely the main point in this "debate"; some people will just prefer one screen type over the other. A lot of people seem to be advertising these opinions as objective fact, and that's quite a dangerous trend.

I'm personally of the opinion that e-Ink is what I'd prefer for reading, but I absolutely despise reading on screens; anything lengthy I print out. And while I think that e-Ink is better for reading, that's all that e-Ink devices (while being a lot cheaper than the iPad) do. If you read less and do other things more, then e-Ink is unlikely to even be an option for you unless you feel like shelling out for another device for the few times you do read at length.

Groxx• 16 years ago

I dunno, it's pretty definitive that emissive displays cause more eye strain than a book (and E-ink is really close to a book). For any serious reader, eye strain seems likely to be at the top of their to-be-avoided list.

jon_hendry• 16 years ago

The contrast of e-ink, in my experience, improves with brighter lighting. Outdoors in sunlight it's quite good. Also, I find a bright white CFLs to give better contrast than similarly-bright incandescents.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

photon_off• 16 years ago

In my first experience with the Kindle, I was fascinated by the backflash. It's clearly not desired, but the technology apparently isn't there yet to do away with it. I just found it so neat that such an apparent flaw is kept in the product because even with it, it's a "good enough" experience. If I imagine myself on the team making Kindle, I think I might find it unacceptable that the screen flashes on every page turn.

Aside from that, the first Kindle had some sort of really awesome scrolling mirror thing on the right. What is it, and how does it work? How can you make material selectively reflective like that?

njharman• 16 years ago

I like eInk, but I read books and papers with color, with pictures some mostly so, and I'd rather not wait and get epileptic seizure every time I turn the page.

Clearly eInk has advantages and equally clearly it has faults. Neither better nor worse, just different.

ck2• 16 years ago

What's with the wayward "pixels" on the eink display, is that dirt or what?

I'll have to try a kindle someday. I had to wait for high resolution LCD because I am nearsighted and can literally see the pixel grid "screendoor" at HDTV resolutions on the desktop (even at 23" size) and it was driving me crazy - used a CRT until this year!

yellowbkpk2• 16 years ago

Those aren't really the pixels, they're the "phosphor" of the display. The pixels are behind the little blobs goo and are little electrical contacts that induce a magnetic field. When the field is one way, the pixels are dark, and vice versa. The field affects the nearby blobs of goo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Electronic_paper_(Side_vie...

PidGin1282• 16 years ago

Wait, E-Ink is literally a magnadoodle?!

I must bring a magnet to barnes&noble...

StavrosK5• 16 years ago

Erm, this guy lost the opportunity to make a few hundred bucks with that post, because I want that microscope!

ZeroGravitas• 16 years ago

The image links to Amazon with what looks like a referral id in the URL if you want to kick him back a finders fee.

StavrosK5• 16 years ago

I'll do that, thanks!

yellowbkpk2• 16 years ago

There are several here for <$50:

http://www.dealextreme.com/products.dx/category.808~search.m...

StavrosK5• 16 years ago

Thanks for the link, but I'm in London, so with the shipping Amazon UK will be cheaper, I think... Thanks again!

brkumar• 16 years ago

The exact model is available with free shipping throughout Europe at play.com - http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/11521117/Veho-VMS-004D-Deluxe-...

StavrosK5• 16 years ago

It seems that they only deliver electronics in the UK...

c1sc0• 16 years ago

I wonder what the production cost of an iPad with TWO displays would be? The iPhone now has glass on both sides, what if the front could be LCD and the back E-Ink? Since E-ink is permanent, it could also be a great way to "personalize" your iPad with e.g. a custom design on the 'back'. Steve, are you reading this?

T-zex• 16 years ago

I'd prefer the iPhone with solar batteries on the backside.

krschultz2• 16 years ago

E-ink displays are very expensive. The one in the kindle costs > $60 to the manufacturer.

judofyr• 16 years ago

That reminds me of Pixel Qi, a display that's a mixture a normal LCD and E-Ink: http://www.pixelqi.com/home

ubercore• 16 years ago

It's not actually the same as E-Ink, it's still an LCD screen when in low power reflective mode.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_Qi

mikecane• 16 years ago

I'm surprised the eInk particles look like rocks at the bottom of an aquarium. All this time I was led to believe they were uniform, like tiny spheres.

kjrose• 16 years ago

I can't wait to get my next kindle. The iPad is nice from the perspective of video and the like, but it is still very much a computer screen. The Kindle simply feels exactly like mutating paper.

It'll be really cool if Amazon ever figures out colour on the kindle.

mmorris• 16 years ago

It'll be really cool if Amazon ever figures out colour on the kindle.

Actually, the display is made by eInk, not by Amazon.

There are color versions in development, last I heard they should be going in to mass production around the end of this year. I'd guess that Amazon will have a color version of the Kindle soon after the displays are available.

AlexMuir• 16 years ago

Can someone fire one up on the iPhone 4 display?

senki• 16 years ago

Apple Retina Display: Under the microscope comparisons with 1G and 3G:

http://prometheus.med.utah.edu/~bwjones/2010/06/apple-retina...

Discussion:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1461213

gte910h3• 16 years ago

Having used both Kindles and iPads to read things, I don't understand how people can think it's such a clear choice (see comments, etc of article)

It honestly feels like the "kindle is awesome" side of the clearly made up their mind people have some amounts of vision trouble which has gone uncorrected. I don't understand at a slightest, the feeling they're talking about, nor do several of the iPad owners of various ages I've talked to.

It honestly feels like the "iPad is a clearly superior reading device" group don't ever walk into the sun though. Honestly, even with the contrast controls, that shiny screen gets you in troubles in sunlight heavy situations. And really many don't get that the kindle is meant to be used the same places books are? So many people seem to not understand you need just as much light to use it then complain about the lack of light.

crad• 16 years ago

I own both a Kindle and an iPad and have used both for reading books. I prefer reading on the Kindle because of the eInk screen, weight of the device and the orientation of the buttons. I do find the iPad has a much more engaging screen and is a very usable reader, except when it comes to reading outside. I made the mistake of taking my iPad with me to the park to read; the glare was far too much, even in the shade.

Ultimately for me it feels better to read on the Kindle. The Kindle is made for reading and it shows in the engineering, just as the iPad is a multimedia device that has a few apps for reading books.

thedragon4453• 16 years ago

Agreed. Kindle makes the most sense as a dedicated reader, and indeed if that were all I were using it for, then the Kindle would win.

The compelling thing about the iPad, for me at least, is that it isn't just a reader.

jpdbaugh4• 16 years ago

I think the "kindle is awesome" crowd are people who use a reader to read novels. The Kindle is simply almost identical to the experience reading a printed book. However good the iPad is as a reader, it is not even close to the same as a printed book mainly because of the backlight.

mortenjorck2• 16 years ago

Is the backlight actually all that much of a differentiator? It seems like it should be, but apart from the greater uniformity of a backlight, what are the practical differences? This question of emissive versus reflective light is itself a fuzzy distinction because, with an LCD, you're seeing light bounced through the diffuser behind the liquid crystal, not directly from the CCFL or LED.

There is, however, a surprisingly major difference (at least to me) which is highlighted by this microscope comparison: Dot pitch. The iPad's IPS panel has a pretty average dot pitch, but I was surprised to see that the Kindle's e-ink display has essentially none. Even though the eye compensates for dot pitch, I have to wonder if that still might make a difference.

andrewljohnson• 16 years ago

In a study by useit (Nielsen's group), they found reading the Kindle is slower than reading the iPad is slower than reading a book.

So, to say that using a Kindle is more like reading a book than an iPad strikes me as bogus. I don't understand how a backlight or not decides an item's bookishness. Certainly, neither has pages.

gte910h3• 16 years ago

And I use my iPad to read novels....I enjoy the backlight actually.

WarDekar2• 16 years ago

I use my Kindle to read all sorts of non-fiction works (I very rarely read novels). I'm not sure why everyone assumes it's only fiction readers that would care- there are plenty of non-fiction books that aren't reference books. I find it much preferable to read over the iPad, for all the standard reasons (glare, eye strain, etc.) I also find highlighting to be much preferable on the Kindle (maybe Amazon has updated their iPad app, but the version I have won't let you highlight across page boundaries) as well as going to footnotes and back. Of course I do a lot of my Kindle reading outside (at the pool, at the park, whatever) so that plays a major factor as well, it's like I don't want to use my iPad unless it's dark (this applies to more than just reading) because I hate seeing reflections.

The only times I really use the iPad in place of the Kindle is when I'm in a dark place (I've used it quite a bit outside at the hot tub at night), and I use the iPad for Instapaper usually instead of the Kindle.

Another reason I prefer longer reading (which Instapaper doesn't really fall under, while articles are usually longer form it's not like it's a book) on the Kindle is because with the iPad I find that I'll be too easily tempted to press Home and mess around with something else (I realize this is my own fault and not necessarily a fault of the iPad, but it's something that I'm sure other dual-owners have experienced).

Kilimanjaro• 16 years ago

Now compare the iPad display with one of a PSP, then a TV, a CRT, an LCD, an XRAY film, a Chess board, a canvas, etc.

That's what I use the iPad for.

zootm2• 16 years ago

Well, yes, obviously the comparison is only informative for the "reading" application of the iPad. This is also the reason that comparing the prices and some other aspects of the devices is pretty worthless. But if you're interested in the differences in screen technology this is a very neat comparison.

kadavy• 16 years ago

Additionally, the Kindle doesn't shoot beams of light at your eyes.

mortenjorck2• 16 years ago

It bounces them, though. Sometimes from the sun!

Synaesthesia• 16 years ago

This is basically the fundamental difference between the screens.

rdez6173• 16 years ago

I don't know how much it matters what the screen looks like under magnification.

I think it's a matter of preference and which best suits your lifestyle; there are pros and cons of both.

nnash• 16 years ago

The simulated fibers on the Kindle's eInk screen are pretty incredible.

Tycho• 16 years ago

The answer here seems straight forward enough: just get an iPad and an eInk reader. Seriously, the eInk devices are great for replacing books (reading outside, avoiding glare, not caring about battery life), the iPad is great for internet/apps and augmenting the reading experience (eg. the way you can zoom and scroll so effortlessly makes reading those awkwardly formatted PDFs much easier. in fact you get a sort of entirely novel tactile experience)

ghshephard• 16 years ago

Yes. You nailed it - I carry both of them with me 100% of the time. When I'm on the road, I _tear_ through books on my iPad in Hotel Rooms (Dark Light.) During the day, or while on the beach - the Kindle comes out and I also disappear in reading (Nobody in their right mind even attempts to read on an iPad in the sun - even with the Matte screen.)

And, best part of all - I have a MiFi (I spent many, many hours trying to decide whether to go with the 3G Ipad) - and I am astonishingly happy over the fact that I can now support the K3 (WiFi Support - Yay!), my iPad, my Laptop, and my iPhone with my 5 Gigabyte Capacity Sprint MiFi.

lsc3• 16 years ago

is anyone selling e-ink or even just transflective displays for laptops/computers/etc/ that I could use in my day to day work? most current e-ink stuff would be too slow for most things... but eh, for a second or third monitor I could use when reading things that don't change, it could work.

a transflective screen could also do the job... I had one of the little green OLPC jobbes for a while, and I really liked the transflective mode, though the device as a whole, imo, was fairly useless other than as a bulky e-reader. Still I'd pay money for transflective panels for my desktop, and I'd pay quite a bit of money for a transflective screen on my laptop.

kxs2• 16 years ago

Pixel Qi maybe, but 10" only atm, iirc.

http://pixelqi.com/blog1/2010/03/07/diy-pixel-qi-kits/

lsc3• 16 years ago

nice... that's almost enough for me to put up with a netbook keyboard, or at least enough to /look at/ netbook keyboards again. too bad it doesn't fit a thinkpad X series.

Kindle vs. iPad Displays: Up close and personal

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