Y Combinator Clone in Vienna, Austria launches

http://beta.yeurope.net/

by enki • 19 years ago

18 74 19 years ago

beta.yeurope.net

rms3• 19 years ago

Cool. They stole the application too, but I guess they can because doing so didn't hurt Techstars at all. They stole it so badly that I wonder if it's a joke.

"If one wanted to buy you three months in (March 2007), what's the lowest offer you'd take?"

I wonder how long it will be before we see a clone in India/East Asia.

jward• 19 years ago

Techstars stole the app. These guys stole the entire site.

wordsthatendinq• 19 years ago

I think it's kind of funny that everyone uses the same app. One of these days someone will start a Princeton Review-like startup that submits the answers to all organizations with one click.

btw, I don't know if it's just me but I don't know why people are so worked up over these copycats. When the second university in the world was founded, maybe people accused them of copying the first university, but in the long run it's been good for mankind. Of course, if all the orgs want to talk amongst each other and pay royalties to YC, that might also be interesting.

Goladus• 19 years ago

People steal the Y Combinator app is because it's so good. You can't just google and plug in the "right" answers.

Interpreting the responses is the skill that matters.

sudhirc• 19 years ago

Well rms I am from India. Mentality right now is against startups. Working for big companies is considered very smart and only options out here. But things are changing out here too. One of my friend quit his job to join a startup. I do not have the right credentials otherwise i would have setup a YC clone here too.

enki10• 19 years ago

not a joke - tried to contact pg a few weeks ago already - emailed them again - but running out of time - if we don't get applications now, we can't launch. if pg says anything in that direction, we'll immediately take it down, and ask people to resubmit new forms because we can't use them. the questions pg asks are great, it just didn't feel sensical to try to reformulate them.

our differenciation is in how we implement it locally, not how we ask questions - the questions just are the same everywhere in the world.

our local hacker club is what we think might make this work - we have a few hundred people sharing knowledge and ideas here. we hope to build up entrepreneurial knowledge and spirit around the metalab, and store it within the collective memory of the people here.

whacked_new3• 19 years ago

I believe YC's program is quite revolutionary, both in terms of supporting innovative businesses and also as an educational opportunity; I agree that right now, they are probably the best model to follow, but copying the application verbatim doesn't reflect well on your organization.

For example, do you have any other ideas you thought of applying with? One may be something we've been waiting for. I'd be very surprised if at the first time of execution, you are already so confident about your judgment of the internet startup landscape. It's reasonable to assume that YC really has things in mind. In this case, you are only waiting for things to come into your mind.

If the YC method is good, people will learn from it, and it will flourish. But seeing how yeurope does it right now, I will be wary.

enki10• 19 years ago

i know that this is a big problem, and does not reflect well on us.

we've had some failed startup attempts 4 years ago, e.g. in the area of social sorting. we certainly can't provide the level of depth and experience pg has, but we've been trying our best to learn for a long time now. we're talking to lots of people in austria and throughout europe, and are trying to get more people to support and make this work.

we have been working on getting things going fulltime for 4 years now, but the situation is a lot harder in europe. once there are some successful startups around, we hope to convince them to join the board. we just don't have any people to look up to here, and got to bootstrap somehow.

we've been pretty busy in preparing the ground for this, both with our hacklab, but also with contacts to all kinds of people who might help out with this, private, corporate and political. we even founded an interest group for startup founders (IG Startup), to lobby with politics, and are actively discussing their ICT funding strategies with the respective politicians and decision makers.

our hacklab launched one year ago, after 2 years of trying to finance it, and has a few hundred users already. the problem is the financing option for yeurope has just arisen half a week ago, and if we don't launch now - we might never do it.

paul• 19 years ago

You should add a disclaimer to your site that says, "We are not affiliated with Y-Combinator, we just ripped off their name, funding model, and application." Otherwise, people may get confused.

enki10• 19 years ago

done

Benja2• 19 years ago

A general question and a specific one:

Who are you? Metalab has an extensive website, but who's behind YEurope? You know that the funding is only a small part of what YC provides -- you won't be able to live up to pg, rtm et al, which is expected, but right now you don't say anything about yourself, so why should a prospective applicant value your connections and advice?

And: One of the things YC does is that it sets up a company for you. YEurope is in Austria. Austria is a country where it's expensive to incorporate (pg has written about how that is one problem for startups in Europe [1]). What are you going to do about that?

[1] http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html

enki10• 19 years ago

hello benja, i'm paul and i'm the one who mainly started this. your reservations are absolutely justified. who am i to think i can do this? i haven't had any huge successes to show yet, and i really didn't want to launch like this. i had big plans of launching with my own money, and then i'd have prepared some nice texts telling my success story.

as things went, we are launching early. i'm certainly in a different league than pg, but i try. being where i am now, i'll also write down some more information about me and the other people involved, so that you can get a better idea.

basically i'm a computer security guy. started programming with 8, and then later spent a lot of time at university to get cheap net access using the DLX single-floppy linux distro that my brothers had developed in 96 (of course i had no student account at 14). met cool people there, tutors and such, and was trying hard to keep up with them. i started the teso security group in 98, and have been a computer security person ever since. i got involved with many NGOs, am really interested in game theory and reputation systems, co-wrote a paper on quantum cryptography, and started a company first trying to do social sorting, but ran out of money quickly (i wasn't checking against my own reality, but the reality i knew from my friends in SF, and expecting to get VC easily, so i rented an office, got myself a friend as a CEO who was good with words - i certainly wasn't back then). then i developed a bootable usb stick with a crypto IFS filesystem driver for windows, and loopback-aes for linux, to sell to local banks. we had a customer, and we finished the code, but my ceo got lovesick and didn't answer my calls for weeks. then i got a loan, hired a project manager to do this stuff for me. we didn't get anywhere, but she was really expensive. in early 2004 i had to close shop because we could neither get any funding at all, nor get anyone to manufacture the product. i made lots of mistakes. i got back into security consulting, and spent the last 3 years paying off my debt, and learning from these mistakes. i never managed to incorporate beyond my one-person-company. i spent my free time during the last 3 years building up the metalab, probably the most active non-profit and self-funded project center in europe. We have about 110 members, who pay 20 euros a month to finance our location. We are completely nonprofit and independent, and will remain like that. But one of the goals of the lab was to prepare both for my own next startup, and the startups of other people. so far we've been quite successful at sharing knowledge, experience, and instantiating projects. being wary of big endeavours with too many unknown factors, i'm organizing a computer security conference (http://deepsec.net/) right now and had planned to use that money to finance yeurope in a year. my startup probably is the most risk-averse of all we have in the lab right now. i was urgently aiming for success and start cash for yeurope. half a week ago, because we started lobbying as IG Startup (interest group of startup founders), an opportunity has arisen to do YEurope right now, by taking an angel on board. we certainly have worse cards than YC in the US, but i'm confident we can do this, or i wouldn't try.

i'll try to write these things down in a more readable fashion in the future. in the meanwhile you can read a slightly outdated but less prosaic CV here: http://kybkreis.org/~enki/cv_paulboehm2007.pdf

regarding the incorporation question: we have a harmonization regulation in the EU which allows us to start companies anywhere in Europe. we could start cheap LLCs or LLPs in the UK and still use them in Vienna, with Viennese law applying to all business except shareholder disputes which would be under UK law. for non-EU citizens we might have to find special arrangements. i have no idea how this might work. i'm not a lawyer though, and i'll leave this stuff to our lawyers.

BitGeek5• 19 years ago

enki-

You need to set up a forum for prospective YEurope startups to communicate about the idea. I don't think this discussion is going to happen on this thread.

enki10• 19 years ago

great idea!

i've set up a google group (both forum and mailinglist) at http://groups.google.com/group/yeurope/

i'll link this from the main yeurope page too, after getting some well deserved (i hope) rest.

i'm not sure if ggroups is the perfect communication medium - better ideas welcome! if you want to insta-chat with us, we're big fans of jabber. my jid is enki@jabber.metalab.at. lets hope feedback stays on a sane volume so i can directly stay in touch with all of you.

paul

gibsonf1• 19 years ago

Maybe YC should be getting some percentage?

enki10• 19 years ago

i wouldn't mind giving them percentage, or for that matter, even all of it - we don't care about making money with it - i have my own startup running already. what we want is to attract talent to austria, and make it possible for locals to make the leap.

NonEUCitizen• 19 years ago

re: attracting talent to austria, can you get work permits for non-EU citizens?

fmu3• 19 years ago

the question is: do i want someone to hold a large chunk of my equity who does not care about making money? me thinks not.

secondly, you state having your own startup. if this is not a shitty startup it will absorb all of your free time.

what makes you think your lack of time, apparent lack of connections, and lack of interest in financial gain would be a good deal for an entrepreneur?

brett• 19 years ago

So that I have this straight: You've tried to copy YC's approach and website as closely as possible down to featuring one of their startup's product in the middle of your page and naming your yourself so as to suggest that you're somehow affiliated and you are holding out hope that they're going to be happy (or even just not upset) with this?

3KWA• 19 years ago

Many people in Europe have been looking at what YCombinator is doing and how they are doing things. There is no less creative and hacking talent in Europe than in the States but certainly a lack of entrepreneurial spirit and the infrastructures and environment favorable to the emergence of top notch startups. Nevertheless it is well worth trying!

I tried to contact PG a few months ago on the subject of getting YCombinator to participate one way or another in such a scheme in Europe with no success. The YEurope rip-off does not reflect well indeed on such endeavors but you can be sure that other will emerge and hopefully turn some ventures into successes.

ivan• 19 years ago

At least something 50 kilometers away :) Alles gute Paul.

SwellJoe2• 19 years ago

What's wrong with this sentence:

"YCombinator Clone in Vienna, Austria launches!"

Hint: It's not in the first, second, third or sixth word.

You're missing at least 50% of the value of Y Combinator by being outside of a startup center, probably more. Can a successful startup happen outside of the Valley? Sure...but you're definitely hurting the chances of success by a significant degree.

Tichy2• 19 years ago

Certainly the value of YCombinator is bringing interesting people together. I don't think the Valley is the only place in the world with interesting people, though.

YEurope doesn't look too promising, though - the cloning approach leaves a negative impression. If they are so cutting edge, surely they would have been able to come up with their own scheme.

Also, they don't say how they will come up with interesting speakers.

enki10• 19 years ago

take a look at http://metalab.at/wiki/Folder:V5a-en - we've spent years building up a thriving community. we had planned to launch in 2008 with the money from our first successful startups, but half a week ago the opportunity has arisen to start in 2007. we could have spent more time pretending to look different like techstars has done, but what good would that do? we rather launch now and face the critics.

we are openly copying the concept of ycombinator, akin to copying the concept of an university. we are neither trying to hide that fact nor arguing against it. time will tell if our approach works. but a verbatim copy of the implementation in europe certainly wouldn't work, and how such an implementation could look, this is what we have concentrated our thought and deeds on.

rms3• 19 years ago

They have different aims with this program, they're doing what they can to take make Vienna/Europe better for startups.

BitGeek5• 19 years ago

If %50 of the value of YC is the fact that they require startups to locate in Boston or SF, then any startup who doesn't get into YC can get %60 of the benefit by simply relocating.

Seriously, I hope that %50 of the "benefit" of YC is not moveing to an expensive location where every resource you could need for a business is constrained.

I've seen no evidence that locating outside of SF or MA reduces your chances of success. (Though this is often claimed, of course.)

SwellJoe2• 19 years ago

"where every resource you could need for a business is constrained"

Every resource except:

Money. The Valley has money like you wouldn't believe. Everything worth anything gets funded. If you can pull out a nice demo and sign on a few paying customers, you will get money--more than enough to make up for the cost of living.

People who understand what you're doing. There are dozens or hundreds of "startup" attorneys here...and nowhere else. There are dozens or hundreds of "startup" accountants here...and nowhere else. There are always events happening that will bring you into contact with other entrepreneurs.

I've started a company outside of the valley (started in Houston and moved to Austin, which is no slouch as far as technology goes) and I've started one in the valley. The valley is better.

jmw2• 19 years ago

The traditional claims for success/failure of companies inside/outside of the valley comes from Venture Capitalists who have years worth of statistics coming from their own investments.

The stats point to a change in percentage chance of success for any incremental distance from Palo Alto/Mountain View that a venture funded company is moved. (I don't know the numbers offhand - but it's significant, even down to whole percent numbers per 10 miles if I remember correctly)

From someone who's recently been talking to many people about the choice to live in Boston, Mountain View/Palo Alto, San Fran - or somewhere else, every person (investor/entrepreneur/historian) points to MV/PA.

Many people (and firms like Sequoia ...etc) won't invest unless you're in the valley.

BitGeek5• 19 years ago

Man, I'm amazed at the bitching here... Someone's trying to help foster startups in europe! The horror! There's no way it can be decent, right? Jesus.....

Its not like the idea of doing early stage funding is that new, nor is the idea of havign an application form new. Ok, so the questions may not be original-- but that's flattery, its not like the YC form is a trade secret!

Getting startups together for a fixed period in a fixed place is relatively new, and seems to be a YC idea. Ok, so what does it mean when others emulate this? IT means they think its a good idea! How does this hurt YC?

YC is evangelizing a different approach to early stage funding. Now others are emulating the idea-- there is no way in hell that this can be a bad thing!

This is called success!

Do y'all who were rejected by YC hate the fact that there are now other options?

Or do you think that these people are going to steal all the "good" startups from YC diminishing their pool?

pg5• 19 years ago

Possibly people were offended more by the plagiarism than the desire to fund startups in Europe. It is a bit much calling the thing Y Europe, for example. Seed funding doesn't require your name begin with Y.

Sam_Odio2• 19 years ago

It also implies a collaboration with YC, which doesn't exist.

Regardless, I think it will be hard to fully replicate the YC model, because it's unlikely these firms will generate the following YC has. This following equates to attention, press, prestige and connections for all the new YC companies.

Without all that, all you have is an angel investor. And there's nothing new about that.

Really, when it comes down to it, this is just an enormous validation for what's happening here. After all, "imitation is the best form of flattery."

ntoshev• 19 years ago

I'm going to be a little harsh here.

Most people don't care much about plagiarism, they just think YC is a much better deal than its clones. And it is all about perception. The current clones look lame even at a first glance. If another tech celebrity tries to do the same thing, it would be a different story. A track record of successful startups would help you, but if you are right about the major shift towards startups, there is no way on Earth to keep all that market for yourself.

yaacovtp• 19 years ago

Especially when the "Y" part of the name actually means something in context. Too bad ybother.com is gone. It could have make for a great name for a web 2.0 graveyard.

Leonidas• 19 years ago

I think that it's great there's something like Y in Europe for startups. Anything that helps to promote entrepreneurs are great. The 'issue' here is that YEurope, the "Y" implies that you're associated with YCombinator...which is kind of misleading. Secondly, the questions are exactly the same as the Y right down to the period. The program could have reworded it, took out irrelevant questions or add some more like TechStars did. Thirdly, the design of the site looks relatively similar to that of Y's with the huge sliding picture in the front.

If you want to use the questions right down to the period, might have been better if you emailed and asked the Y team if you could do that.

I know its weird and you're probably thinking, who cares if they copy right down to the period? Its giving entrepreneurs a chance. Yes, but at least give credit where credit is due.

markovich• 19 years ago

Hello Paul,

Your idea is interesting, but frankly, I don't get it. Your resume and your website do not hint at your having the money to sponsor the groups. You do not tell us how giving up a percentage of our companies is going to benefit us. The money is small - I could work on the side and make that money every month.

What is not clear is this:

1. Do you have the money for this? If so, from where? If a piece of software needed additional funding after 6 months, would you be able to do this (like pg put 50.000 in justin.tv)

2. Do you have the marketing reach? Will affiliating myself with you give me greater marketing strength?

3. Do you have access to legal information and advice? Can you offer this to your startups?

4. Do you have any connections to Venture Capital? Do you _know_ about venture capital, such as to give good or bad advice?

plusbryan• 19 years ago

Did anyone notice they're ALSO using heysan's (a yc company) widget for their homepage? That seems pretty classy to me.

Harj2• 19 years ago

The problem with this is that I can't see the people involved. Who are the investors? What are their backgrounds? Why are they going to increase my chances of success?

Replicating the YC seed funding model is fair game. What I find irritating (and btw I'm very keen to see more European start ups funded so I'm not outright attacking you for the sake of it) is that people replicate the easy parts without putting the effort into the hard parts of YC.

Easy parts = Getting money and an application form

Hard parts = Getting high profile speakers every week to talk with founders, putting together an investor day with the most high profile investors in the world, providing real mentorship, creating a supportive community.

create_account4• 19 years ago

Connections with high profile investors?

That's why Kiko had to use eBay?

Ha!

pg5• 19 years ago

We did actually introduce Kiko to angels who invested in them. And Kiko didn't sell because they were out of money, but because their users were draining away.

jmw2• 19 years ago

One of the hardest parts of a "seed investor" is having actual successful experience in an early stage company (See PG, Trevor, and RTM in ViaWeb-Yahoo Store), and being able to use that experience when mentoring a young company.

Having talked with all kinds of investors it's amazing how much more you can respect and understand the advice of someone who's been in your place before - and how much more relevant they can make it through their own experiences.

furd• 19 years ago

The bad news is that you have to move to Poland during the summer session.

usablecontent• 19 years ago

The good news is that, last time I checked the map Vienna was in Austria...

pg5• 19 years ago

He's joking. He's saying that Poland is to Vienna as Massachusetts is to Silicon Valley.

nige4• 19 years ago

great news! as founder of First Tuesday in Vienna in 1999 I was involved in a lot of start up connections. the angel boerse here i2 might be useful, other contacts are a "similar" space from Frequentis for related companies to have incubator space, it was running in the 4th bez. and then there is Julie Meyer running Ariadne with the desire to build a new europe ...http://www.ariadnecapital.com/team_julie.htm and others like http://www.discoverybeach.co.uk/ best regards, nigel

nige4• 19 years ago

whats the biggest problem in austria for startups as you see it?

nige4• 19 years ago

whats the biggest problem for startups in austria as you see it?

fmu3• 19 years ago

socialism, risk aversion, retarded labor laws, few adequate computer programmers, tiny private equity market, most startup investors are not well-connected outside their immediate environment thus add little value

schmidp• 19 years ago

I think it's a great Idea! I've been at Metalab quite a few times now and it's a great place with great people.

Last friday they hosted the first "Startup Freitag" (Startup Friday) to bring people interested in startups together. As Paul hasn't talked about YEurope on friday, I guess some opportunities emerged from that first get togehter.

I'm eagerly awaiting the next one the 5th of May. I left the last one after a great chat at about 3am (if I remember correctly).

While I do understand why people don't like the YEurope copycat from YCombinator, I think the reasons why they did it is obvious: attention and getting the message out fast. Most people interested in startups know about YCombinator and most of them will asume YEurope is doing something similar. (time might also have played a factor)

I personally know Paul and if you have a look at Metalab and on what he (and the others) achieved there, I think it's a good point to have some trust in YEurope.

Many will agree that one of the great values of YCombinator are connections and bringing the right people together. That's exactly what the Metalab is trying to do and has done really well so far.

(I first wrote that comment on TechCrunch and then copied it over here)

Y Combinator Clone in Vienna, Austria launches

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