Change of scope and target market for i386

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2017-September/004212.html

by campuscodi • 9 years ago

71 51 9 years ago

lists.ubuntu.com

DeepYogurt2• 9 years ago

Glad to see 32bit intel being dropped.

mtgx2• 9 years ago

I hadn't considered this, but I wonder if in a few years AMD will have more leverage against Intel because everyone uses AMD64?

aldeluis• 9 years ago

I use 32bit server images in VPS because the RAM usage is significantly lower. This is critical in VPS units with 512MB of RAM... I'm worried.

DeepYogurt2• 9 years ago

Try a different distro?

amongwhales3• 9 years ago

That's what I was thinking. Arch switched to all x86_64 a few months ago (announced the phase-out) but, Arch would probably be just as lightweight. I'm not sure what DE it comes with

sever5• 9 years ago

Debian is the go to, they maintain niche architectures and ports almost to a fault.

Iv• 9 years ago

The proposal explicitly calls to keep i386 as a target for containers.

izacus• 9 years ago

hmm, doesn't Linux have a mode where it keeps 32bit pointers even on x86_64? I remember reading about it.

ant6n2• 9 years ago

x32 ABI. Although I've never heard of a Linux that's x32 only.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X32_ABI

slacka• 9 years ago

Same, I also get by with 512MB. If i686 support is dropped, I'd need to move up to 1GB, which comes with a considerable cost increase.

jcelerier• 9 years ago

I use 32bit server images in VPS because the RAM usage is significantly lower. This is critical in VPS units with 512MB of RAM... I'm worried.

You could use Debian x32 instead. 32 bit pointers but amd64 instruction set: https://wiki.debian.org/X32Port

kobeya• 9 years ago

Use the netinst image, which is still being maintained.

oliwarner• 9 years ago

You have 32bit support on 16.04 through 2021.

If by that point you can't just throw another 512 of RAM at the problem, I'd be worried. 1GB is already starting to become the lowest rung for VPS providers. That's the $5 plan at Linode, anyway. I fully expect that to be universal (or greater) in four years time.

And that's not to mention that while a little wider, 64bit is also faster. This could be a saving factor under load.

phippsbrad• 9 years ago

I have Intel Atom netbooks that currently run Ubuntu wonderfully. But they are low RAM and the 32bit version runs better than the 64bit (if they can even run 64bit). I am worried I will have to drop Ubuntu and switch to plain Debian because of this.

cup-of-tea3• 9 years ago

Same. It's funny actually, last time I installed something on there I just assumed it was x86_64 and was thoroughly confused for a good few moments when the USB stick would not boot. But yeah, I, for one, still run Linux on i386 hardware. My netbook isn't obsolete. In fact, I don't think I can buy anything like it any more.

maccard• 9 years ago

My netbook isn't obsolete. In fact, I don't think I can buy anything like it any more.

That's pretty much the definition of obsolete

unsigner• 9 years ago

There's a crop of light, cheap Chinese laptops based on Atoms (well, they call them "Apollo Lake") which are the closes you can get to a modern day netbook. Google N3450 (the most popular CPU), or brands like Chuwi, Jumper or Onda.

mtgx2• 9 years ago

Do you plan on keeping those Atom machines for longer than 2021? Because otherwise it should not be an issue, as you can still use 16.04 with the latest patches until 2021.

yothsoggoth• 9 years ago

How much better do the 32-bit versions run?

I still use my old second-hand Samsung N220 Plus occasionally when I'm travelling, as it's lighter than my main laptop and I can't afford a light + performant one.

I'd never actually considered whether to run 32-bit or 64-bit OS on it, and just installed the 64-bit by habit.

sliverstorm• 9 years ago

Hop on the final i686 LTS-type release of either Ubuntu or CentOS, and you'll be fine for a long time. RHEL4 was updated for like a decade after it first launched.

wyldfire• 9 years ago

I wonder if it's time for ubuntu and friends to seriously consider ia32?

yuhong• 9 years ago

The fun thing is that I think Ubuntu has not been bothering with non-PAE kernels for years now I think.

rwmj2• 9 years ago

Fedora nearly dropped i686 earlier this year, and might do so soon. More specifically there was a proposal to stop building i686 kernels[1] which didn't go through but it did start a lot of discussion on the mailing list. Eventually it was decided to set up an x86 SIG for anyone interested in maintaining it[2][3]. It's yet to be seen how the SIG will work out.

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Stop_Building_i686_Ke...

[2] https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1737

[3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/x86

leggomylibro2• 9 years ago

This is really only tangentially-related, but on the subject of removing architecture support, can I point out how annoying it is that Eclipse 4 does not target ARM architectures?

Look at this: http://archive.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops4/R-4.6-20...

Linux (x86/GTK+) Linux (x86_64/GTK+) Linux (PPC/GTK+) Linux (PPC64/GTK+) Linux (s390x/GTK+) Linux (s390/GTK+) Linux (PPC64LE/GTK+)

And yet no ARM...I'll bet more people use that than s390.

rwmj2• 9 years ago

Is Eclipse still written in Java? I wonder why architecture support has to be added at all.

andrewf• 9 years ago

IBM is almost certainly committing dollars or people to make that s390 (and PPC64) support happen.

Animats• 9 years ago

    Discontinue to provide for i386
    * Server classic img/iso
    * Desktop live

Oh, they just mean 32-bit x86. I thought for a moment this was Ubuntu killing Linux on the desktop.

dpcx• 9 years ago

x86_64 is still available... I don't know the last time I personally used an i386 image from anything.

jwilk• 9 years ago

Do people actually use x86 for IoT?

jmkni2• 9 years ago

32 bit is handy in development because you can run more than one.

On most processors you can only run one 64 bit VM, but as many 32 bit VMs as you can handle.

chansecodina• 9 years ago

Now I'm curious: Which hypervisor has that limitation?

jmkni2• 9 years ago

It's more that any consumer grade processor seems to have this limitation.

I have an i7-6700HQ for example, and I can either have Hyper-V turned on (I'm on Windows) in which case I can only run 32-bit VM's with VirtualBox, or I can turn off Hyper-V in which case I can run one 64-bit VM on VirtualBox, and then only 32-bit VM's past that.

If I'm doing Android development, I can't run a 64-bit VM at the same time as the Android emulator is 64-bit.

Sometimes I want to run my web server, an Android VM, and maybe a Redis server on Ubuntu in a VM. I can't emulate Android and run a 64-bit VM, so the 32-bit Ubuntu distro is invaluable here.

acoye• 9 years ago

The end of x86 32bit is near … And here I am trying to find an up to date distro for my G5s :D

Tl;dr opensource or not, market share dictates supported archs.

The only difference been, you can try to build from the sources for your vintage hardware.

davidgerard• 9 years ago

I got an SSD on Friday and accidentally downloaded the 32-bit desktop ISO for 16.04 ... even with PAE on 8GB RAM with 8GB swap, it turns out 32-bit Firefox crashes when its virtual memory footprint gets too big ...

So yeah. 32-bit is now a specialist thing. Or you could use Debian.

16.04 is supported until 2021, so ...

Change of scope and target market for i386

Related Stories