Google and ProPublica team up to build a national hate crime database

https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/18/google-documenting-hate-news-index-propublica/

by mcone • 9 years ago

60 77 9 years ago

nkkollaw2• 9 years ago

Sounds like positive news because it's totally crazy to see somebody—specially if not even German—waving a Nazi flag like it's something to be proud of.

However, I wonder if this promotes hate towards the haters (probably a dumb thought)..? Who gets to decide who the bad guys are and what a hate crime is..?

alecco6• 9 years ago

Of course. I'd even agree up to a point the extremist intolerants should not be allowed (be it nazis, fascists, maoist, communists, or religious extremists). But it looks very wrong to put this in the hands of a mega-corporation with political interests. They are a virtual monopoly on search and videos.

I wonder what would the EFF would say about this.

We've been on this road before. Under the pretense of terrorism threats individual rights were eroded on a massive scale. And Google was part of it, either actively or with willful ignorance (e.g. not encrypting internal links so NSA could easily tap).

Who are they to decide what is a hate crime? In Canada it's a hate crime to refuse to use on of a dozen gender pronouns for "non-binary" people.

nkkollaw2• 9 years ago

I guess it's a hate crime if it's considered a hate crime where it happens..?

The more I think about it though, the more it seems wrong.

There must be local laws that regulate hate crimes, it seems wrong that a corporation gets with someone and starts shaming people online instead of letting local authorities deal with it.

And, if local authorities don't deal with it it's either legal—and so they should be able to do whatever they want no matter how stupid it is—or the problem is with the police, but a database doesn't solve that.

yahna3• 9 years ago

In Canada it's a hate crime to refuse to use on of a dozen gender pronouns for "non-binary" people

No it's not. Listen to a lawyer or actual expert instead of a psych professor with a chip on his shoulder.

amputect2• 9 years ago

w/r/t "hate towards the haters" (assuming by "haters" here you mean people literally waving a nazi flag, or more colloquially, "nazis"), you might find this essay on the paradox of tolerence interesting: https://extranewsfeed.com/tolerance-is-not-a-moral-precept-1...

Danihan5• 9 years ago

This article is absurd, I'm not sure why people keep spamming it here.

It's just a self-righteous rallying cry for more divisiveness.

alecco6• 9 years ago

Not even pretending anymore, Google?

ProPublica was the brainchild of billionaires and major Democratic donors Herbert and Marion Sandler, the former chief executives of the Golden West Financial Corporation, who have committed $10 million a year to the project

superobserver7• 9 years ago

Google hasn't hidden its liberal, pro-Hillary ties at least since her Presidential campaign. Can anyone say Eric "he who will not be named" Schmidt without getting suicided these days? Time will tell who answers for this.

amputect2• 9 years ago

I encourage you to look at the full list of partners, this isn't "google and one liberal rag" it's "google and a ton of major journalism outlets and universities", and it's worth evaluating through that lens.

I am cautiously optimistic that they might be able to accomplish something good here and create a more data-driven analysis of something that's a hot-button, highly emotionally charged topic right now.

alecco6• 9 years ago

Yes, perfectly fine. Jordan Peterson banned for being "far right" (he is nothing like that, for decades warned about the rise of fascism and nazism). And far left groups are allowed to perform violent acts and recruit people.

All these liberal groups are waking up dark and powerful forces that have been dormant. They are delusional thinking it's something they will be able to control. Same applies with republicans feeding the Tea Party and all that. When anger rises it doesn't stop until there's a lot of blood.

protomyth2• 9 years ago

"google and a ton of major journalism outlets and universities"

Can you point to the known conservative group in that mix?

andrenth• 9 years ago

Not to mention being backed by Open Society. George Soros' hand is everywhere you look.

mcbruiser3• 9 years ago

yes, he's actively trying to change the country

superobserver7• 9 years ago

The irony behind Soros' involvement is he was a (proud) Nazi collaborator who confiscated Jewish property. Just sweatens the message's delivery, doesn't it?

gleglegle• 9 years ago

This is excellent news!

superobserver7• 9 years ago

Sure, if you like living in a nanny-police state. A lot more than the 1st amendment is under threat for the grossly staged violence perpetrated upon American society in recent days.

Ref.: http://stevepieczenik.com/charlottesville-staged-confrontati...

krapp2• 9 years ago

Oh, look. Someone believes the latest act of right-wing violence was really a false-flag operation by leftists coordinating with the CIA, and that Pizzagate was actually a thing.

What crazy kooky outside-the-box reporting that is, which means it must be true I guess.

superobserver7• 9 years ago

Google engaged in blacklisting people for something as vague as "hate crime" (when not crimes) is as Orwellian as it gets. Then again, as long as Antifa, BLM, KKK, Neo-Nazi, etc. persons convicted of real crimes are fairly and equally represented, perhaps we'll see real movement to shut this nonsense down.

alecco6• 9 years ago

#3 14 points/26m Google and ProPublica team up to build a national hate crime database

#6 105 points/1h YouTube admits 'wrong call' over deletion of Syrian war crime videos

Yeah, perfectly explainable. Like every other time.

Jaruzel• 9 years ago

If you are talking about post position on the Front Page, then it's stated somewhere (the FAQ?) that HN mods and admins can 'insert' a story anywhere on the front page if they feel it needs more attention than it's getting.

Personally, I'm not a fan of that (feels a bit /. under DICE for my liking) - but I'm just a freeloader here, like the rest of us.

alecco6• 9 years ago

In the Google Memo debacle they kept saying they did not intervene in favor of Google. That it was just the flagging of users what drove the stories out of the home page. A story with 1600 points could only be reached via Algolia or comments section.

sctb2• 9 years ago

I'm not sure I understand. You can't compare points/time between stories for many reasons—some of them relevant to the story (like flags, penalties) and some of them not (not all votes are counted).

yahna3• 9 years ago

Antifa, BLM, KKK, Neo-Nazi

2 of these things are not like the others. 2 of these things just don't belong.

edit: yay downvotes from people who can't mention nazis without whataboutism.

smokeyj• 9 years ago

Ah yes, the inevitable subjectivity of defining "hate groups". I'm getting my popcorn ready.

krapp2• 9 years ago

Don't worry, they have an algorithm.

Google's algorithms never fail. Never.

howlgram• 9 years ago

don't worry, he just got blacklisted by google for that

Danihan5• 9 years ago

In the videos I saw, Antifa and BLM were stalking (and eventually hitting) people in Charlottesville with bats.

In Berkeley, they beat several people unconscious, and that was just over a speaker who they didn't like.

That's crossing some serious lines, whether you find it justifiable or not.

dgfgfdagasdfgfa• 9 years ago

In the videos I saw, Antifa and BLM were stalking (and eventually hitting) people in Charlottesville with bats.

Well, which one was it? That's a massive difference in identity.

willstrafach• 9 years ago

In the videos I saw

These don't seem to be very easy to find. Can you link some examples? (Honestly asking).

sctb2• 9 years ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15049765 and marked it off-topic.

chroem-• 9 years ago

I'm about as far left as they come, like campaigning for Sanders left, but I have some serious concerns about this.

There has been a serious effort to label everyone that disagrees with Israel's growing apartheid policies toward the Palestinian people as antisemitic hate criminals. I worry that this sort of corporate vigilanteism is going to make it effectively illegal to disagree with the narratives sponsored by the wealthiest members of our society.

gremlinsinc3• 9 years ago

Lefty here too (So left I wrote Bernie in, hoping Trump would win just to stick it to the DNC) - and not sad I did, because the Rep. party is literally in a suicide spiral off Trump tower...

I'm totally totally appalled..by Saturday's events..and part of me rejoices at Cloudflare/Google/Godaddy fighting Nazi's... but a part of me - the techy/privacy part is screaming MY GOD WHAT Are we Letting them do in the name of 'Anti-Hate' -- giving everyone a label, or making them fit in a box is a scary precipice to go over.

I hope and pray we can find better ways to combat the hate, I think the leaders at google are well meaning in this, but this screams to me that something bigger and deadlier could be unleashed as a result. We need to be REALLY careful how we start self-policing the internet.

Danihan5• 9 years ago

I'm not sure why people can't just dislike (or hate) whomever they want to? Isn't that the whole point of Freedom of Association?

Everyone dislikes certain individuals, or groups of people. Sometimes it's for petty, wrongheaded reasons. Sometimes it's for well-thought out, valid reasons. Sometimes it's ideological, sometimes it's pragmatic. Sometimes it changes over time, sometimes it doesn't.

I don't understand the emotional / viewpoint policing people seem to want to engage in lately.

hfourm• 9 years ago

One thing a co-worker brought up recently is how terrifyingly "mob" like the online sphere has become. From twitter to facebook to etc. Media is now reactionary to what people want, and they can tell what people want by "trending topics", which are essentially the wills of a mob.

I could expand but I think this gets the gist of my fears out there.

ucaetano6• 9 years ago

Check the actual project, it has nothing to do with what you're talking about. It is just an index of news articles talking about hate crime.

This page lists media reports, collected by Google News, about hate crimes and bias incidents.

propogandist• 9 years ago

it's interesting that one minor incident (that's gotten endless press coverage) has given one side enough momentum to push through all kinds of unfavorable initiatives using the hysteria around the event as their smokescreen.

this is all part of the big agenda

ucaetano6• 9 years ago

This page lists media reports, collected by Google News, about hate crimes and bias incidents.

This project is just a list of news reports talking about hate crime.

Take a look at the actual project: https://projects.propublica.org/hate-news-index/

gozur88• 9 years ago

Yep. The problem with this sort of thing is the definition of "hate crime" will stretch and grow to cover a whole lot of people to whom it shouldn't apply.

Also, they're inevitably going to make mistakes. How are they going to compensate the victims?

the_d00d2• 9 years ago

Excellent point. The labeling is sure to be flawed and studies using it as a data source will treat it as absolute truth/substitution for thought.

freedomben3• 9 years ago

Don't worry, I'm sure James Damore won't show up on this list.

0x4f3759df• 9 years ago

I guess they will start choking off more web activity from their political enemies.

ucaetano6• 9 years ago

For those who didn't read the article, the project doesn't try to define hate crimes, just surface media reports about hate crimes:

This page lists media reports, collected by Google News, about hate crimes and bias incidents.

navs• 9 years ago

This a hundred times over. There seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to this being a form of censorship. I say this because that was my first impression before reading the article.

wongarsu• 9 years ago

The Hate News Index will keep an eye out for false positives

finding false positives means eventually you have to decide what you consider a hate crime

ucaetano6• 9 years ago

You missed the example of the false positive:

(casual uses of the word “hate” for example)

devindotcom3• 9 years ago

Like police shootings and acts of force, hate crimes are growing in number and visibility but are inconsistently reported. An independent database seems like a great idea. I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that this is going to be some Google-run thoughtcrime outfit. It's news organizations and universities sharing data, Google is on algo support.

Full list of partners here:

https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/hatecrimes

freedomben3• 9 years ago

I detest the surge in (at least visible) racism as of late, but as a liberal this terrifies me. The idea that an organization (particularly one that is driven by corporate interests and has serious problems with diversity) is able and willing to impose its will like this against others is concerning.

This is one of those hard things, because I don't fear what it currently is, or what the intentions are, but I do fear what it can become. Definitions of things change over time, and what is considered a "hate crime" can and will change. This could easily become a tool for the enforcement of political correctness (and I don't mean that the way the alt-right likes to define it. I mean the traditional definition, that being politically correct means you agree with those in power).

And what of somebody falsely accused or convicted? We know the police can be crooked and that courts can make mistakes. Are we to ruin someone's life and/or reputation because of that? Must they beg and sacrifice at the altar of Google to clear their name?

ucaetano6• 9 years ago

Check the actual project, it has nothing to do with what you're talking. It is just an index of news articles talking about hate crime.

This page lists media reports, collected by Google News, about hate crimes and bias incidents.

freedomben3• 9 years ago

I did read the article. Perhaps you missed this part:

“In this case, it helps reporters by digging out locations, names and other useful data from the 3,000-plus news reports

urda• 9 years ago

I'm terrified at seeing the positive "great idea!" and "good job google" comments here. This type of database, or collection of persons can (and most likely will) be wielded in an unfair and unjust manner. This isn't Google's job to handle at all.

HN readers, sure Google is on your side today but that might not be the case tomorrow. Any sane person can see why this is an awful idea.

notananthem• 9 years ago

This is great, southern poverty law center already does this well though

devindotcom3• 9 years ago

Yeah, they're a partner.

Inconel• 9 years ago

I think reasonable people can disagree on how well the SPLC does this considering their including of Maajid Nawaz among their list of anti-Muslim extremists.

Edit: To clarify, I understand that you were referencing their hate crimes database and that I brought up their list of people they label as extremists, and while the two things aren't the same, my point was to highlight that not everyone sees the SPLC as infallible.

oval-atom2• 9 years ago

1984: Government's Attempt to Control The Mind and Bodies of Its Citizens

The novel Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell is an American classic which explores the human mind when it comes to power, corruption, control, and the ultimate utopian society. Orwell indirectly proposes that power given to the government will ultimately become corrupt and they will attempt to force all to conform to their one set standard. He also sets forth the idea that the corrupted government will attempt to destroy any and all mental and physical opposition to their beliefs, thus eliminating any opportunity for achieving an utopian society.

I guess Mr Orwell got it wrong, it won't be the government. Google has already shown it's belief in "Diversity", but only how they define it, as experienced by the engineer they just booted.

Google, FaceBook, Apple, Twitter, and Microsoft will be controlling all the information. Don't be surprised if you see only what they want you to see.

People worry about the NSA invading your private life, the NSA drools about the data these Techno Giants already have. And of course they put on this glorified act of denial when the government requests information.

Yet people worry about who will police what these government entities are doing, so who is going to police these Techno Giants? Remember, these companies are in for the money and all that that comes with it.

Zuckerberg wants everyone to have a Basic Income, who is going to pay for that? But it is one way to buy votes. It sounds like just another welfare program.

Welfare is destroying this country, as it is today. It destroys incentive and when that happens, the mind becomes worthless.

I tend to go along with Thomas Sowell. https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/thomas-sowe...

https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2015/05/19/instead-of-...

The ideology of the Techno Giants, "Your Life Belongs to US"

prewett• 9 years ago

George Orwell was British not American...

oval-atom2• 9 years ago

But government is government, hope you got the rest of them.

sysdyne• 9 years ago

What's with this dystopian news I'm reading more everyday? "This page lists media reports, collected by Google News, about hate crimes and bias incidents." No doubt containing personal names and being combined with Google's algorithms. What could possibly go wrong?

Google and ProPublica team up to build a national hate crime database

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