Airbnb is banning people trying to attend a white supremacist rally

https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/08/airbnb-ban-white-supremacist-rally

by janober • 9 years ago

34 53 9 years ago

Daishiman4• 9 years ago

Not a problem.

ggreer• 9 years ago

You aren't worried that Airbnb's net will catch innocent people? For example: Journalists covering the rally, or counter-protesters.

Daishiman4• 9 years ago

These people weren't hiding anything about their position on this matter. So no, not really.

retox• 9 years ago

Do you use AirBnB? How about I claim there is a rally in any city you want to stay, or complain to AB you are hosting ebil racists and get you blacklisted?

bookmarkacc• 9 years ago

Is it just a claim though? It seems quite factual

ringaroundthetx• 9 years ago

Banning SOME of the people that were trying to attend the event.

What is actually going on here? The articles and comment go on like everyone is getting banned for any association to an event, and debating hypotheticals.

Who is getting banned and for what actual reasons? Any hosts? Some guests? Who, what, and the nuances of why are notoriously missing from this

RickS• 9 years ago

Awesome. The idea that companies are apolitical can't die fast enough. No person-to-person platform can reach scale and be apolitical.

You end up with companies like reddit and twitter who are too timid to make a stand about what their rules really are, and then waffle until they're forced to deal either with the PR nightmare of suddenly changing directions at scale, or the PR nightmare of allowing shitbags nobody wants to deal with to run rampant on the platform because they don't want to change directions at scale.

If you really want to support "anything goes" you have to be willing to be 2006 /b/. Turns out the legal, advertising, and financial implications of this decision are painful (even for 4chan).

If you're not willing to be /b/, you've default accepted that free speech is off the table. If that's the case, the best thing you can do is actually spend thought and effort on your principles, and on enforcing them swiftly and evenhandedly.

Speech is free on the internet, and it should be. Speech is not free on a single company's website, and it shouldn't be.

Curation is a very important form of product design, and curation of users (or lack thereof) is no exception.

kkirsche• 9 years ago

Probably a dumb question but what does /b/ reference here?

simtel20• 9 years ago

It refers to the general conversation area in 4chan where most of the crazy there happened.

flukus6• 9 years ago

No person-to-person platform can reach scale and be apolitical.

Companies that are too political can't scale at all, they put to many people off. Most overtly political business like feminist cafe's or LGBT bookshops die pretty quickly. In the tech world, if I could go back half a decade and know how political github would become I and many other people would have never signed up.

The idea that companies are apolitical can't die fast enough.

Why do you want to make life more complicated? When I go get my morning coffee I don't want to know what the companies opinion on gay marriage is. When I go watch a movie I don't want to know what the makers opinions are on progressive taxation. When I buy a phone I don't want to know the manufacturers opinion on global warming.

saghm• 9 years ago

Companies that are too political can't scale at all

If being against white supremacy is "too political", then what you're really saying is that companies shouldn't be political at all—which is a reasonable viewpoint, but I think the phrasing "too political" is a bit misleading.

salvar3• 9 years ago

When I stay at an Airbnb I'd like to know that my host isn't a KKK member. I'm sure most of Airbnb's customer's feel this way. I'd say that Airbnb's services are much more personal (in a person-to-person way) than coffee, movies or phones.

legostormtroopr2• 9 years ago

As a non-American, I find it quite worrying that American companies (specifically tech and SV ones) that operate globally are so eager to police politics on their platforms.

While I don't agree with White power rallies (which should go without saying), they have as much right to service as any other political group.

StackOverflow already took an "open-borders, anti-Trump, or get out mentality", so its not a stretch to say that any right leaning belief, or more acurately any non-extreme left belief will be under fire from more and more companies.

That is troubling indeed.

flukus6• 9 years ago

StackOverflow already took an "open-borders, anti-Trump, or get out mentality", so its not a stretch to say that any right leaning belief, or more acurately any non-extreme left belief will be under fire from more and more companies.

This approach is burning bridges and giving up on any attempt to convince the other side. They'll still hold their views and they'll be forced into a bubble where their views are reinforced and are likely to become more extreme. Next election cycle could very well have people asking "how on earth did Trump get re-elected?" and the answer will be this style of attempted thought control.

Even worse, it's burning bridges with people in the middle and in many cases even the ones that are on your side.

mvid• 9 years ago

People "in the middle" are not attending white power rallies.

splintercell• 9 years ago

As a non-American, I find it quite worrying that American companies (specifically tech and SV ones) that operate globally are so eager to police politics on their platforms.

It's because of the most liberal free speech clause in American constitution. Because it is not govt's responsibility to police speech, when speech gets too unbearable to most people, the companies have to step in or else they risk their platforms disappear.

msie• 9 years ago

While I don't agree with White power rallies (which should go without saying), they have as much right to service as any other political group.

Equating White power groups with other groups is truly foolish. There is no debate about whether their views are beneficial or have any merit. They will not care about you if the situations were reversed.

Frondo2• 9 years ago

"While I don't agree with White power rallies (which should go without saying), they have as much right to service as any other political group."

And AirBNB has the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, outside the protected classes of race, gender, etc.

Political views aren't a protected class in the U.S. They can ban people for any old reason, and if there isn't any general backlash against banning white supremacists, there'll be no specific negative consequence to this action.

The leap from "white supremacists not allowed" to "any non-extreme left belief not allowed" does not make sense.

Raynak• 9 years ago

While I don't agree with White power rallies (which should go without saying), they have as much right to service as any other political group.

So no right.

legostormtroopr2• 9 years ago

Except when we let bad actors use that exact same justification, then its ok for a christian baker to not make a cake for a gay wedding.

nodesocket• 9 years ago

The epidemic problem with bay area companies mixing their leftist politics and business is very disconcerting. They are alienating the majority population of the country, and are acting in the same manner as groups they claim to loathe. It is pure hypocrisy.

Bay area companies enjoy diversity and inclusion, as long as it fits within their narrative.

flukus6• 9 years ago

They're alienating people like myself who are firmly on the left. The left used to care about socio-economics, but they've abandoned the white working class (and the working class of every minority) in favor of identity politics. The left used to care about everyone getting access to a decent education and healthcare instead of denigrating the poor as racist rednecks. The left used to be in favor of helping their neighbors and not opening borders.

Now people who are on the left and many of those that could be are left with no one to vote for.

Larrikin• 9 years ago

Your imagined idea of the left is probably fine with you leaving if you are leaving because a group can't spread a message of death against black people. The high road against disagreeable speech is fine, but aligning yourself with groups that have killed based on race shouldn't allow you to have the benefit of the doubt.

dhf17• 9 years ago

From my perspective as a native Southerner, Silicon Valley seems like a groupthink cult/bubble. Just as much or even more so than the most rural areas around here. Add on the insane cost of living and it does lose a lot of appeal for certain outsiders.

Frondo2• 9 years ago

Shouldn't this be a situation where the market decides, then?

AirBNB, developed in leftist SF: No white supremacists on our system.

AryanBNB, developed in northern Idaho: White supremacists welcome!

If people are really that turned off by AirBNB banning white supremacists, they'd flock to AryanBNB, wouldn't they?

For my part, I just don't think this slope is that slippery. I'd happily prohibit white supremacists from using any service I ever developed, or if I ever opened a retail shop, I'd happily ask them to leave (reserving the right to refuse service and all that).

But that's just me. Surely the white supremacists can develop short-term rental apps to cater to everyone, can't they? (They wouldn't prohibit any specific groups from using their services, I'm sure, ha ha.)

averagewall2• 9 years ago

That reason isn't consistent with popular ideology. If it was valid, you could also make the same argument for AirBNB banning gays and say "well, gays can make their own GayBNB if they want. Let the market decide!" No. That wouldn't be fair for gays to be sidelined to the necessarily inferior minority service. Most customers won't use the GayBNB as a political gesture. Just as most Uber users didn't really switch to Lyft when they were angry at Uber because, well, they kind of liked the cheap and available rides.

VeejayRampay• 9 years ago

They are not alienating the majority of the population. Conservatives are in the minority and they're also extremely old, so not really part of their audience.

partisan• 9 years ago

This could indicate the need for a company like Airbnb that proactively markets to people who think this way. Markets abhor a vacuum.

If companies become political, then they should expect competitors who will use politics as a market differentiator. They should also expect customers to differentiate between their options based on politics as well.

losteverything2• 9 years ago

Holiday Inn: "Yes, we have availability. How many nights?"

Airbnb: fuck off.

To me, this is a perfect example of why hotels and motels will ALWAYS matter.

Daishiman4• 9 years ago

Are you really so naive as to think that most hotel chains just turn a blind eye to white supremacist groups? I bet you almost none of them would host a KKK conference in their premises.

And I bet the net return for them would still be positive for that.

losteverything2• 9 years ago

I am naive for sure.

Would a hotel reservations agent google my name to find information? No.

Would an abb or home away person google me? Maybe - probably?

No reason individuals could book rooms independently in a hotel.

averagewall2• 9 years ago

Banning people because of their beliefs and customs is the opposite of what they tell their users to do their Nondiscrimination Policy:

... to engage with each other respectfully, even when views may not reflect their beliefs or upbringings. Airbnb’s members bring to our community an incredible diversity of background experiences, beliefs, and customs.

Words like that sound hostile and hateful to me nowadays. They're so often used to ostracize people who are already widely hated.

Airbnb is banning people trying to attend a white supremacist rally

Related Stories