Ask HN: How to get a developer job anywhere in Europe

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14120252

by lonesword • 9 years ago

23 28 9 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

tl;dr:

Indian developer trying to get a job in Europe. Decent resume, though not stellar. Does not want to get a master's degree from Europe inorder to have access to the job market. Any chance?

The looong version:

24 year old Indian developer who wants to see the world here. Financing an extended trip across Europe on Indian income is difficult, if not impossible. So I thought, hey, if there is such a high demand for quality developers, why not move to Europe?

questions:

1. Is it even possible to get a job in a EU country without getting a degree there? I do not want to spend 2 years of my life trying to get a master's degree that I do not need just to have access to a job market. In other words, can I get a work visa anywhere in Europe without having an offer in hand?

2. Assuming that a degree in the target country is not required, what would be the best approach to applying for jobs? Apply online? Board a plane, rent an apartment in say Berlin and THEN start applying online?

3. I think applying from India will hurt my chances, since potential employers might look at me as just another Indian trying to escape the country into greener pastures. Any 'hacks' to get around this? (apart from a very impressive portfolio - which i do not have. I'm alright, maybe even good, but not stellar/rockstar)

background:

1. 2 years experience in javascript and java with a US based enterprise data management company that makes backup software. Not another Indian outsourcing shop. Working from India.

2. GSoC 2014.

3. A few small side projects

P.S: Getting ANY developer job anywhere geographically close to Europe would suffice. I should earn enough to afford roaming around europe on weekends, that's it.

atroyn5• 9 years ago

Answering for Germany, Berlin/Munich in particular.

1. You'll need a bachelor's degree in your field, but you won't need a masters. That said, getting a masters may give you a leg up. Postgrad education in Germany is free even for international students, the standar is high, and it gives you the opportunity to get your German up to an acceptable level. Additionally, you will have 12 months following graduation to find a full-time job. If you're looking to work for a bigger Germany company like Siemens, BMW etc., I'd seriously consider the masters.

2. Research job openings before you go. Tailor your CV. Two places to look are AngelList, and also http://berlinstartupjobs.com/ Applying online has always worked for me, but you may also want to go to some meetups while you're there. Berlin Tech Meetup https://www.meetup.com/b-tech/ is one of the largest.

3. Develop your portfolio. I had plenty of Indian colleagues at several of the companies I worked at.

Try RemoteOK as well.

mushfiq• 9 years ago

"you will have 12 months following graduation to find a full-time job." Its actually 18 months.

atroyn5• 9 years ago

Sorry yes, 18 is correct.

lonesword7• 9 years ago

I do have a bachelor's in my field. But I did not get my degree from Europe. That would not help, right?

atroyn5• 9 years ago

It won't matter. You need the bachelor's degree in your field to get a work visa, but it need not be from Europe.

atroyn5• 9 years ago

Can't edit so I'd also like to add : Germany has a freelancer visa. If you can prove you have clients, contracts in the pipeline, and some savings, it's a matter of bringing some documents and filling out a form at the Ausländerbehörde.

lonesword7• 9 years ago

That's interesting. I wonder if having a popular app in the app store counts, because then I can say that I'm a business owner

jfaucett• 9 years ago

I'm a migrant to Germany as a software engineer and I can tell you its probably going to be really hard if you don't at least study in Germany or are a student in your home country (I was a student when I came). You don't necessarily need to stay and get the degree but its much easier for companies to give you an internship and then hire you if you go this route. Otherwise, its a total pain in the anus for the company to hire you over a EU citizen. I've experienced both ends of this now and its basically just not worth it from a company's perspective to hire someone outside the EU unless they are a super talent and/or the company has the resources/hr to deal with all the paperwork crap.

So to answer, "In other words, can I get a work visa anywhere in Europe without having an offer in hand?" Theoretically yes, practically - highly unlikely.

Maybe its better in other EU countries but I wouldn't know.

To #2: just flying in and hoping you'll land something even with a very solid portfolio is a bad idea, since its highly unlikely any company is going to go through the hoops so you can work for them and time will be against you since the process takes a while.

I'd say if you can suck it up you should go the student route since its the path of least resistance and all you need is to be enrolled, you don't have to finish. Then get an internship since thats easy enough and make a good impression, then that company will want to do the legwork to hire you. This whole process might take about 2 years but at the end of the day you'll be set.

lonesword7• 9 years ago

Thanks a lot.

mindhash• 9 years ago

Landing.jobs check this out..I got a few responses here..Once from sky scanner

afarrell• 9 years ago

As someone coming from the US, my strategy was:

1) Put some effort into a side project, in my case a SaltStack tutorial that I'd wanted to do for a while.

2) Go to a conference (PyCaribbean) and meet people.

3) Reach out to recruiters in the cities I was targeting.

4) Reach out to recruiters who had emailed me in the past 2 years and to ask if they had any contacts in Europe.

#2 and #3 seem to have been the most valuable. If you want to move to Ireland, Michael Diver is communicative, ethical, and responsive.

Also, some logistical tips:

- Use https://calendly.com/ to schedule phone interviews across timezones without off-by-one errors or a lot of back-and-forth.

- When interviewing over skype, have a phone line or page on https://appear.in/ room at the ready.

- If you decide to stay in a hostel rather than hotel or airbnb, it is worth asking what type of mattress they have. http://rainymood.com/ and an external battery charger are a necessity if you want to do this.

I'd be happy to help more if you give me a bit more detail on what type of company you're interested in working for. If you're open to living in London, I really like the place I'm working and would be happy to introduce you. Our interview process looks a bit like https://gocardless.com/blog/redesigning-the-devops-interview... My email is in my profile, so feel free to get in touch.

lonesword7• 9 years ago

Thanks. That's sound advice. I've sent you mail

thisone• 9 years ago

Re 2, if that becomes your plan make sure you research immigration law in the country you choose first. It's not always legal to just move to a new country and start applying for jobs.

A history of breaking immigration rules won't help your eventual visa application.

mobiplayer• 9 years ago

You might want to find other Indian engineers working for companies in Europe. Maybe LinkedIn helps with that. Once you found a few, message them asking for how they did it.

bluecollar• 9 years ago

1. No, that's impossible. This is why companies outsource to India instead of move Indians to Europe. If you want to work inside Europe you'll have to go through the long process of becoming European.

2. No, if you start living somewhere illegally you'll be deported. The first step is to visit Embassies.

johnnydoebk• 9 years ago

> No, that's impossible.

Sorry, but that's complete BS.

lonesword7• 9 years ago

Actually they outsource because the wages are cheaper in India

drakonka2• 9 years ago

Does India have working holiday arrangements with the EU? As a Ukrainian living in Australia without a degree, to move to Europe I got my Australian citizenship so that I could then get a working holiday visa. In the meantime I freelanced and contracted in Australia to save up money. The working holiday visa allowed me to move to my chosen European country for a year and look for work while there - much easier than trying to get a company to relocate you remotely. I ended up applying for jobs through listings on various company sites after moving and started work about 2 months after the move with a largeish company (which then assisted with applying for a proper longer-term employment visa when the time came).

lonesword7• 9 years ago

Nope, India does not have working holiday arrangement.

leojg• 9 years ago

Hi, I plan to do something similar, a WHV only allows you to work for less than 6 months... how is the job market for short term contracts? Do you plan to get a work visa after your WHV ends?

Thanks!

drakonka2• 9 years ago

Hey,

This was about 5 years ago. I was employed under a permanent contract, and have since received an employment visa/residence permit. During my interview and then again when I came in to sign the contract I just made sure the employer knew my visa status - they indicated that it would be no problem to get the longer term visa when the time comes, and they work with a relocation company which helps with applications and such. There _was_ some question about whether I would have to leave the country while the application for the new visa was in progress, but this did not end up being the case.

I'm not really sure what the job market is like for short term contracts since I've been with the same company ever since and haven't really looked around. I've had recruiters approach me but always for permanent positions. Most of the in-house contractors I see on our end are in QA (though we do have some engineering contractors as well, I just don't see those positions advertised so much). More specifically I am in game development and there seem to be a lot of permanent game dev positions going around.

mb_72• 9 years ago

Estonia has made it much easier for selected local start-ups to hire from outside the EU: http://www.startupestonia.ee/visa/estonian-startups

Might be worth checking with a selection of these companies to see if they have something for you. Good luck!

jakobegger3• 9 years ago

Immigration laws are very country specific. I'm Austrian, so let me tell you about the situation in Austria:

1) You don't need a degree from Europe, but you do need a degree. There are multiple types of work Visas, but typically you need a degree from a program that takes at least three years.

2) Currently software developers are officially "scarce" in Austria, so they made it easier to get a work permit. You will need to have all your documents (eg. your diploma) translated to German by an official translator, but apart from that it should be easy.

4) Your work permit will be tied to a specific company in the first year. After one year, you can apply for an "unlimited" work permit.

5) The biggest hurdle is going to be finding a company that wants to hire you. If you don't care where you work, in Europe, I suggest to also look at smaller companies, and look at companies that are outside the big cities. For example, here in Linz (small city in Austria), there are currently dozens if not hundreds of open positions for software developers. Every tech company I know here in Linz is trying to hire people, but we just don't have enough developers that live here, and nobody wants to move here.

6) For jobs in Austria, have a look at http://karriere.at

7) Applying from India shouldn't be an issue, but make sure that you have a proper setup for Skype. Many Austrians will have a hard time understanding English with Indian accent, and echos / noise / etc won't help.

lonesword7• 9 years ago

Thanks. Linz sounds promising. Will an "official translator" mean someone authorized by the Austrian government? Or will any qualified translator be enough?

jakobegger3• 9 years ago

Here's more information about working in Austria: http://www.migration.gv.at/en/types-of-immigration/permanent...

It seems that English documents are accepted as well, so maybe you wouldn't even need to bother with a translation. If you do need a translation, it has to be from a "certified translator", but I'm not sure what that means exactly.

It looks like you also need a place to stay before you can apply for the work permit. You'll have a hard time finding a normal apartment from abroad, since most landlords won't rent to people who aren't here, so maybe you could book a low cost hotel or a room in a student dorm, then look for a place once you started working.

But all of that probably isn't that hard, and should be pretty straightforward. The only thing you really need is a company that wants to hire you.

infinite8s• 9 years ago

on point 5, why don't people want to move to Linz? It looks quite charming.

jakobegger3• 9 years ago

I don't know. It's mostly a feeling based on many of my friends leaving for Vienna, and few of them coming back.

I like Linz, but I think it's a bit ordinary. Not much here that would excite people to move here.

Also, if you don't speak German, the "international" community is not very big.

Ask HN: How to get a developer job anywhere in Europe

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