7tag Open Source Google Tag Manager Alternative Deleted from GitHub

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13317628

by n3ddy • 10 years ago

44 24 10 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Yep - all the original code's gone and been replaced with a "buy the new product" page...

Anyone know where I can get a copy and/or is this even allowed? I thought this defeated the purpose of the open source spirit!

Original Github URL: https://github.com/seventag/seventag

mveety• 10 years ago

Mirror: https://github.com/tsteur/open-source-tag-manager and https://github.com/lindsaymacvean/seventag

akerro• 10 years ago

Cheers, made it more decentralized.

thecolorblue• 10 years ago

From a legal standpoint, what is required to "un-open source" a codebase? Would all of the contributors need to agree?

slimsag• 10 years ago

It depends. If you give someone code which has a LICENSE file containing the BSD 3-clause license -- you've given them a license to use that code under the specified terms in the license, i.e. without charge etc.

In order to revoke access to the code from that user, you would have to get them to legally agree (i.e. sign something) that says they agree to having their license of that code revoked / that they will not use the code.

That is just for that one user -- at that one revision of code. If you wanted it such that _nobody_ could use your old codebase -- you'd have to get anyone who is using that code under said license to legally agree not to use it.

For new revisions of code, assuming a non-copyleft license like BSD, MIT, etc., you could simply state "we were the original owners of the code, therefore we no longer license the code under the open source license" and there is no need for you to distribute that code ever again.

In fact, this is why people can legally sell open-source software made by someone else -- even if that is ethically wrong to do.

IANAL, and some of the above is light on the details, so take it with a grain of salt / try not to be too nit-picky at me =)

new299• 10 years ago

For reference, the code in discussion appears to have been released under the GNU Affero General Public License.

Hydraulix989• 10 years ago

"In fact, this is why people can legally sell open-source software made by someone else -- even if that is ethically wrong to do."

Why/how is it ethically wrong?

If the license permits commercial sale (GPL, for example), then as long as the seller abides by the license (by making available a free download to the source code in the case of GPL, for example), then it is ethically valid because they aren't violating the license.

If you develop open source software with a license that allows commercial use, you can't possibly get angry at users who fully abide by the license and commercialize the software, let alone call them "unethical."

Either you don't distribute your software with a license that explicitly allows commercial use, or you can't possibly call a commercial user "unethical."

That's the whole point of a license -- to definitively spell out in an unambiguous way the legal terms of usage. With GPL, it's not even close to being a "loophole," that license explicitly allows commercial use.

jillav• 10 years ago

My guess (for what it's worth) is that getting the code off github is not the same as "un-open source" it.

Open source, as far as the GPL license is concerned means that anyone that has a copy of the original codebase is allowed to give away copies of this code. I think it's still the case for the part of the code that was on github under the GPL.

What do you think?

edit : slimsag was quicker

iurisilvio• 10 years ago

AFAIK, changes to this GPL codebase must be GPL.

Licenses are always complicated, but when I contribute to a project GPL licensed, I expect any changes to be GPL too.

I'm not a lawyer, but studied licenses to understand which projects I can use.

x1798DE• 10 years ago

I think it's generally not possible to un-open-source something. Once you release it with a properly open source license, that version is released with that license. Otherwise a single person could release something open source, wait for it to become popular and then revoke the open source licensure and cause all kinds of headaches.

That said, if you take down the source code and no one has a mirror, barring any other legal obligations (like those created by the GPL), it's not like you are compelled to provide your source, even if it's been released under an open license.

tyingq2• 10 years ago

Otherwise a single person could release something open source, wait for it to become popular and then revoke the open source licensure and cause all kinds of headaches.

Well, you can do that, assuming you're the original copyright holder for all of the original source. It doesn't change the license for the code you already released...but it would for any new features, bug fixes, etc. That appears to be exactly what's happening here.

mwexler• 10 years ago

Looks like they are calling it Piwik PRO Tag Manager, and the team doing this is the gang trying to provide professional services around the Piwik open source web analytics tool.

I can't help but wonder if this is a shot across the bow to gauge reception of taking Piwik out of open source by moving all improvements they create to a commercial license. I presume this is easier or harder depending on the license chosen, but IANAL.

halfdan2• 10 years ago

Just to clarify: Piwik is and will remain open source. Piwik PRO is a separate company and has no direct ties with Piwik anymore.

Edit: FAQ Item: http://piwik.org/faq/new-to-piwik/#faq_21984

estefan• 10 years ago

Don't the piwik team have a copyright on the name? Surely they can prevent them using the name if they have.

colonelpopcorn• 10 years ago

Fork it, fork it all.

BuuQu9hu• 10 years ago

https://www.softwareheritage.org/ https://www.githubarchive.org/

corobo• 10 years ago

It looks like Piwik has bought or in some other way acquired it and shut it down. Bit of an odd move for an open source company..

Edit: Had this thread open in a tab and forgot to refresh before commenting - Apparently Piwik and Piwik PRO are different companies, despite piwik.org linking to them a lot and them having the exact same logo with a "[pro]" stamp on it. I always figured PRO was the commercial arm of Piwik.

mattab• 10 years ago

Piwik (open source project & community) and Piwik PRO (one polish company) used to be related somehow to each other (part of the Piwik core team was working at Piwik PRO) but this changed drastically in 2016 after some internal disagreements. As of 2016 there is no Piwik PRO employee working on Piwik or having commit access, no website access, etc. Piwik the open source project & team members became fully independant from Piwik PRO. The company is still buying ads on the homepage and other pages, which can be confusing, but it helps the Piwik project to sustain operations. More details in http://piwik.org/faq/new-to-piwik/faq_21984/

7tag Open Source Google Tag Manager Alternative Deleted from GitHub

Related Stories