DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

https://metropolitan.fi/entry/ddos-attack-halts-heating-in-finland-amidst-winter

by pimeys • 10 years ago

115 76 10 years ago

metropolitan.fi

akerro2• 10 years ago

Will botnet build of smart kettles and smart ovens burn houses, neighbourhoods and cities?

mtgx• 10 years ago

At that point, the makers of such devices should be punished with a lot more than just a recall.

jpalomaki• 10 years ago

If we had large amount of devices like heaters and boilers attached to remote control system it would be probably possible to cause major problems to the electrical network by just turning the devices on and off in synchronised fashion.

And actually this is not so far fetched, since there are already discussions about making these devices smart and remotely controllable so that the utility company could balance the electricity need.

akerro2• 10 years ago

protomyth• 10 years ago

Perhaps, regardless of the convenience factor, we shouldn't hook critical infrastructure to the internet.

oelmekki• 10 years ago

<Insert battlestar galactica reference> :) [1]

One thing is sure: we won't ever make 100% secure networks. For now, ransomware are few and only on a big scale, but they could indeed become a big problem with IoT. I'm not exactly sure why we need to connect those devices to the internet: sounds like a local network should be enough. And if we want to send usage data to some kind of aggregation service, devices still can issue POST requests to our connected desktop, or be bluetooth connected to our mobiles.

[1] for those who didn't watch it, the battlestar galactica is one of the only human spaceships not destroyed by robots, thanks to the fact its captain always refused to connect the ship on the network

ge0rg2• 10 years ago

That sounds like either clueless reporting or an attempt at blame shifting.

The heating system of a building is not a typical DDoS target, and it's improbable that somebody living outside of that building had a take against the inhabitants, knew of the right IP(s) for that building, and the effect a DDoS would have.

It's more plausible that the control system was designed so badly that exposing it to the Internet (and the accompanying background noise from port scanners, be it botnets, spammers or IoT malware) caused it to break down.

Then, the operators saw the effect of the misconfiguration and proclaimed it was a DDoS, because you don't get fired for breaking down under a DDoS, as opposed to having miserable IT security in place. This is similar to getting hacked by "the Russians" (or other state-level evildoers) where it is widely accepted that you just can't prevent such incidents.

na85• 10 years ago

Perhaps. I wouldn't discount actual ddos, though.

Sounds like exactly the sort of thing I'd have done in my youth (if I had had the skills) if I would've discovered lax security in my own building's systems and it pissed me off.

IOT companies don't tend to have bug bounties et al, and shutting off the heat to some buildings seems like a mostly harmless way to get some publicity for the issue.

zmb_• 10 years ago

It is bad reporting. The systems in question were used as a part of launching a DDoS attack, they were not the target of the attack. The high load then caused the systems to crash repeatedly.

ge0rg2• 10 years ago

Do you have a better source for that? In the article it rather reads like the control system was at the receiving end:

The systems that were attacked tried to respond to the attack by rebooting the main control circuit.

sfifs• 10 years ago

Could very well be a prank by teenagers who spot a hole in a nearby buildings systems. Not necessary to assume reporter has it wrong unless you have a contradictory source.

ryanlol2• 10 years ago

This was almost certainly a case of outgoing DoS, not incoming DDoS. Terrible reporting.

Remote management hardware got infected with Mirai or the like.

SixSigma2• 10 years ago

I'm calling: Local newspaper, written in English by Finnish speaking Finns who are not computer specialists.

nommon• 10 years ago

You should meet some Finns. They generally speak excellent English.

ryanlol2• 10 years ago

The Finnish original wasn't any better.

cesarb• 10 years ago

In my experience, embedded systems tend to behave poorly when faced with large amounts of traffic (normal traffic to these systems is tiny). I have once been locked out of work due to an errant workstation flooding the network with broadcast DHCP packets, which overloaded the embedded system which validates the key cards and unlocks the door (later permanently solved by moving the embedded system to its own firewalled VLAN).

As an aside: lovely Netscape favicon on that site.

mrweasel2• 10 years ago

Regardless of the reason, deliberate targetting, accidental "drive by DDoS" or bad configuration, the question that remains is "Why is the heating dependent on being online?"

It is completely reasonable if the heat system every so often "phones home", so report on usage, but it shouldn't actually stop working, if the network connection isn't available.

You can blame, DDoS, hackers, network outages, the Russians, I don't care, it doesn't cover up the fact that your system has a stupid design.

ComteDeLaFere2• 10 years ago

Not sure why this is controversial. Boilers have an on/off switch, and when your company manages a large number of buildings, you automate and centralize on/off for efficiency's sake, no?

ohyes• 10 years ago

No, you generally have a a control device on site. You probably also have some backup/safeguards in place in case the controller fails.

In essential systems you have to build for robustness over efficiency.

mrweasel2• 10 years ago

That fair enough, but in this case the heating system is directly attached to the internet. The correct way of designing something like this is having the heating system as one system and the management system as another.

The management system can then receive information and MAYBE control some aspects of the heating system. If you remove or crash the management system, the heating system just reverts back to being a "dumb" heating system.

My question is: Why in the name of all that is holy does the heating system stop working just because the remote management interface decides to reboot?

This has to be design by the same idiots that believe that an in car infotainment system should be hooked up to the drive computer in a Jeep.

EugeneOZ12• 10 years ago

1. Why russians? We actually neighbors (40 minutes from my home to Finland), we like them and we prefer to be friends with them.

2. Everybody can be smart after the case :) I'm sure now the'll design something more safe.

Pxtl• 10 years ago

Russian hackers are a meme right now because of their meddling in the US Election. They hacked the Clinton campaign's email system. There's also the recent spate of DDOS attacks traced to Russia, iirc.

saucetenuto• 10 years ago

we like them and we prefer to be friends with them.

How true is this? Every Finnish person I've ever met has mistrusted and feared Russia.

reitanqild2• 10 years ago

Agree. Some say Russia is the only neighbouring country Norway hasn't been at war with, although I cannot think of a time when we ever fought against the Finnish either.

That said, no reason not to be careful after what has happened in Ukraine etc we should of course be careful: Russia can wipe out half of Norway just by turning around while they sleep.

ryukafalz• 10 years ago

Everybody can be smart after the case :) I'm sure now the'll design something more safe.

Yes, but this is the kind of basic issue that everyone designing any sort of networked system should be aware of. The network is not reliable, and if you assume it is you're just setting yourself up for failure.

walshemj• 10 years ago

Grossly incompetent not just stupid people could have died.

bsder• 10 years ago

the question that remains is "Why is the heating dependent on being online?"

1) So they can bill you. 2) Bad design

Billing is almost always the reason if the design is sane. And it's always a PITA.

Bad design is self-explanatory. Most programmers think in terms of features rather than function.

I have this discussion every day with people creating battery operated IoT devices.

Me: "What is your most important function?" Them: "Well, we need to do <feature X>" Me: "<sighing> No. Your most important function is to protect your battery. If the device is dead, nothing else matters. Nobody should be able to make you drain your battery without your permission. After that consideration, you can do something useful."

Freestyler_3• 10 years ago

Mostly bad design, it saves lots of money when developing and rolling out.

They didn't even have a firewall.

0xmohit• 10 years ago

[Appears that this was submitted several times on HN before being noticed.]

It appears that it's been fixed. https://twitter.com/Symbiatch/status/796407575776526341

Also see https://twitter.com/internetofshit/status/796405149501706240

Raed667• 10 years ago

In school we have studied a scenario that is exactly like this: "The effects of IoT security on utility and daily life functions"

From hacking boilers to stop water delivery, to locking people outside their doors.

The next few years will be very fun for "infoSec" people.

Ftuuky• 10 years ago

Something like this could happen too: https://twitter.com/ariellejjohnson/status/79470832530046566...

adaisadais• 10 years ago

And so it begins!

mmaunder• 10 years ago

It's not long now until we see the first death directly attributable to a cyber attack.

philfrasty• 10 years ago

There is a great book with this exact topic called „Blackout“ by Marc Elsberg. Highly recommend!

Edit: Amazon link https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FCQLSPC

schlowmo• 10 years ago

[little spoiler warning]

I wouldn't call it "this exact topic", since the primary attack vector in the story are smart meters, but still can second your recommendation. The book is highly based on a study founded by the german government[0], analyzing the outcome of a great scale blackout. The study is also worth reading, unfortunately only a german version is available.

[0] http://www.tab-beim-bundestag.de/de/untersuchungen/u137.html

DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

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