Intel-backed Finnish startup has turned laptop design upside down

http://nordic.businessinsider.com/eve-tech-crowdsourcing-2016-10/

by Nsjs • 10 years ago

70 45 10 years ago

nordic.businessinsider.com

noir_lord3• 10 years ago

Since BI's website is broken for me again and I just wanted to know what it was about.

A crowd sourced laptop is an interesting idea though I wonder how they balance what gets included since everyone wants different things it'll kinda average out.

rileymat2• 10 years ago

I wonder if you could use some sort of clustering algorithm and create something like 4 unique laptops.

noir_lord3• 10 years ago

That might be an interesting approach, I was thinking more set 4 price points and let people then vote which trade-offs to make to meet those price points.

At the moment I'm looking at a new developer laptop (though next year is more likely) and you can see that striation already.

I want a QHD display, 16GB RAM (or better) and an SSD, I'm not really fussed about the processor anything i5 or graphics but most machines with my requirements have a monster i7.

pjc502• 10 years ago

Specs (so far): http://eve.community/t/eve-v-confirmed-specs-1-cpu-ram-stora...

I can't really see the point of Thunderbolt on a non-Mac device - won't that just add a substantial chunk to the required IP licensing costs?

Overall I'm curious about cost. I'd be very surprised if it was cheaper than a corresponding Surface.

AntonyTerence2• 10 years ago

Thunderbolt 3 has a huge bandwidth, which enables external GPU solutions like the Razer Core. For gamers who want the flexibility between size and performance, this is great news. How the Eve V will fare with eGPUs, is yet to be seen.

kirduchah2• 10 years ago

Well surface is quite expensive

kevinherron• 10 years ago

TB3 is Intel, not Apple. And the point is that it has super high bandwidth, enough that you can dock TB3 laptops with a single cable for all your monitors and peripherals.

executesorder66• 10 years ago

I love their goals, and will be keeping a close eye on them as time goes by.

If they really want to make a difference, they should open source their firmware, and use coreboot/libreboot. I've never understood what manufacturers had to gain from keeping their firmware closed source.

syntheticnature• 10 years ago

Gains:

1. Possibly required by any sources written by others (e.g. chip vendors).

2. You don't see how poorly written the firmware is.

yuhong2• 10 years ago

Personally, I do wish that they would at least test the UEFI for common bugs like accessing boot services memory after ExitBootServices.

acdha• 10 years ago

Gains:

1. No issues with licensing for third-party components or drivers, which is most of them.

2. Reduced risk of source updates leaking news about new products and features

3. No need to spend time managing an open-source release process, ensuring that sensitive data isn't leaked outside, etc. Just the legal review for release & accepting contributions is not trivial.

4. No support requests from people who installed someone's fork with a bug in it.

5. Perceived less helpful to someone in a country with lax intellectual property enforcement making a knock-off device and undercutting you

No matter how much you like open-source, there are real costs. You can make the argument that outside contributions will balance those out but that's hard for something like this because much of the cost is up front and all of the benefits are hypothetical future contributions and in the case of firmware relatively few people have the skills or interest to contribute. I might make the argument that the fixes you'd get are probably less frequent but higher value (thinking of e.g. sysadmins fixing difficult in-the-wild bugs which aren't easy to reproduce) but that's pure speculation.

AntonyTerence2• 10 years ago

Finally something that gives users what they actually want.

Singeralion• 10 years ago

Is it a pockemon Eevee? :))

iKirin2• 10 years ago

I don't think it's an Eevee - it's just an Eve V :D

AdmiralAsshat• 10 years ago

So it's another Surface-style hybrid? Color me skeptical.

I have an SP4 for work, and I still don't think we're there yet. Touchscreen is clunky, and I get phantom touchpresses on it all the time. Outputting to multiple monitors is clunky, and when I have to disconnect the SP4 from its docking station, the resolution gets screwed up due to varying DPIs between the Surface screen and the output screens.

Just give me a better clamshell laptop, please. I know the artists would love a detachable tablet screen that they can draw on, but I don't need it.

Tantonos3• 10 years ago

I think this dudes are using metal mesh for the touch panel so ghost touches should be in the past

this-dang-guy3• 10 years ago

Yeah, as far as innovation is concerned, they are about as innovative as lenovo.

I'm sure nobody is especially worried. I see a really bad windows-based ipad knockoff, and a tacky surface knockoff.

Not sure how that's worth the hyperbole there.

I own a surface. It's a terrible form factor full of attractive but poor-performing features. Someone does need to improve the laptop (it's my number 1 go-to device), but these guys aren't it.

yuhong2• 10 years ago

I think I once read that typical profit margins for PCs is the net margins are in the single digit range and the gross margins are about 20% over that. I was wondering what would happen if Intel bought Compaq back in 1991 (when Rod Canion and Jim Harris was still at Compaq) for a while now. Intel has a high profit margin, and Compaq had higher profit margin back in 1991. This also reminds me that big box stores typically requires a higher profit margin than small stores.

Tantonos3• 10 years ago

Intel has super high margins. As they basically sell a commodity. Cause are nowhere close to manufacture as what they are now

addicted• 10 years ago

Thats the opposite of what selling commodity does.

Selling commodities means low profit margins. So if Intel has high profit margins and is selling a commodity it's despite that not because of it.

eugeniqa• 10 years ago

Users contribute to the product development? This idea is on the surface, he-he-h! Yes, on the surface :) And I would be glad and happy to have such a device like Eve V. Hope the shipment to Ukraine will be available.

mobiuscog• 10 years ago

Kickstands are great and all, but I want a laptop to work well on my lap.

jacquesm• 10 years ago

That's not without health risks due to the heat given off by the computer.

http://techin.oureverydaylife.com/danger-having-laptop-lap-1...

Occasional use is no problem at all but if you intend to use a laptop in your lap for extended periods make sure it has a side vent and a back exit or that it uses so little power that it does not get warm.

ungzd• 10 years ago

What's special in their design? It's standard Windows tablet with attachable keyboard.

kirduchah2• 10 years ago

It's designed by end users no?

pj_mukh• 10 years ago

I've never liked the surface style flimsy flipbook keyboards. Otherwise the form-factor is perfect. There's gotta be a better alternative to that keyboard.

devsquid• 10 years ago

Kickstands are the worst. They just don't work that well and they take up so much extra space.

this-dang-guy3• 10 years ago

I have one, it replaced my laptop when the Surface Pro 4 came out.

Upside - the kickstand is awesome, the microSD reader is in a good spot, the battery life is ok, the speakers are ok, the USB3 is in a good spot.

The downside. That keyboard is the worst. You are 100% right. I've typed many thousands of words on it now, and while it's comfortable, it's only good on a desk or desk-type surface. Try it on a lap, and it's basically worthless (like the kickstand).

The pen is trash. The pen stopped working, was replaced, stopped working, was replaced, stopped again (and has been clipped to my desk since). The touchscreen goes out regularly. The wifi is crappy, constantly bouncing. The bandwidth to the microSD is terrible (it's a USB device internally, and slow). The power adapter is a good idea, but I have no idea what they were thinking. If it's cable up, it heats up at the point where it bends. If it's cable-down, it bends super sharply at the desk and heats up there. The light is always white, so no charging feedback. The USB port on the power adapter can't charge anything, including a phone, while the surface is on. Otherwise it keeps dropping out and shows 'plugged in, battery' back and forth every few seconds.

So yeah - spare me another POS like this.

zzalpha2• 10 years ago

The article makes a lot of hay about how they reach out to "the community" to get their feedback on product ideas... an idea which comes straight out of the world of Agile and, in principle, seems like a nice idea.

But imagine what would've happened if Apple took that approach with the first generation iPhone. How many people would've insisted they needed physical keys, or a stylus?

The reality is, sometimes the user doesn't actually know what they need, and that's where a great product visionary can step in and do something truly innovative.

aliskoinsha• 10 years ago

Well see what happened to Apple now?? Are you happy now

this-dang-guy3• 10 years ago

Yeah, agreed. I hate slate phones. I actually like having a real keyboard, though swipe is ok as a stop-gap. The slate would only work if voice recognition was flawless and sub vocal (so that people don't hear me on the train, for example)

iKirin2• 10 years ago

I partially agree - something like the the iPhone would likely still have worked in a crowd developed background as the people there seem to be into the latest tech and searching for improvements. And the iPhone had nice things like a full qwerty keyboard instead of T9 for typing and similar.

Yes the average users usually don't know what they want but enthusiasts are easier to convince and are more willing to take risks and innovate.

zzalpha2• 10 years ago

Yes the average users usually don't know what they want but enthusiasts are easier to convince and are more willing to take risks and innovate.

Enthusiasts are exactly the wrong people you want to talk to if you're looking to build a mass market consumer device. Enthusiasts want keyboards, for example (see the other reply to my original comment), whereas the mass market seems very happy without them (likely because they're far more likely to consume content than originate it in large quantities).

Now, in this case, maybe a device for enthusiasts is exactly what they're trying to build. But if that's true, I'm not sure why they care about a device that's "budget-priced".

JMCQ87• 10 years ago

Does it run Linux? Otherwise I don't want it. ;)

gravypod• 10 years ago

It's a great idea but it seems like they went for the messed up arrow keys.

For a programmer I'd say the arrow keys are one of the most important parts of the keyboard.

ChuckMcM• 10 years ago

Basically some submarine marketing to get there indiegogo campaign kicked off, but it was interesting to me that they "crowd sourced" the design and ended up with what is essentially a Surface Pro type unit.

But for me the interesting bit is following the whole evolution of the laptop thing.

A long time ago (March 2009) I bought something called a "Touchbook" from a company called Always Innovating. Its features were, detachable keyboard (additional battery in keyboard), ARM processor, touch screen, Ubuntu OS (later Android). Desktop "flipped" with the screen orientation. It had a lot to like about it and showed the potential, but it was clunky, had horrible battery life, and the resistive touchscreen was not reliable (think a Chumby with a 10" screen rather than something more futuristic)

Then the iPad came out and everyone assumed "tablets were the next big thing". But people still wanted to type and not give up half the screen to an on screen keyboard. I've got a couple of blue tooth keyboards (one Apple, one Logitech) that I used with the iPad (one even has an ESC key :-)) but the carry the keyboard + tablet, oh the keyboard isn't charged thing was a pain.

Microsoft did the Surface, which was soundly derided by Apple's Phil Schiller (I know it was his job to deride all iPad competitors) And then Apple when ahead and kind of bought into the theme with the iPad pro.

So what are the variables?

   Keyboard detachable/fixed
      * Detachable seems to be the current answer
   Keyboard more than keys (battery)?
      * Still mixed, Surface Book yes, iPad Pro/SP4 no.
   Screen Size ?
      * 13" SBook
      * 12" SP4/iPad Pro
      * 10" iPad Pro
   Full OS / Mobile OS
      * iPad iOS
      * SPro Windows 10
   Stylus?
      * Mostly yes (iPad Pro, Surface)
      * Mostly no (third party "2:1" computers)
   Screen?
      * HiDPI screen (pretty much all of them)
   Cellular?
      * Surface no
      * iPad yes.

While it is expensive for me while Microsoft and Apple explore the design space :-) I am enjoying the innovation. At some point I wonder if Google will want to play in this space, or if they will try to partner with Microsoft and be the "mobile OS" answer for Surface.

meowschwitz• 10 years ago

if they are using windows, they"ve already lost.

Intel-backed Finnish startup has turned laptop design upside down

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