As an iPhone developer, I'm glad Apple banned cross-compiling

http://blog.cubeofm.com/as-an-iphone-developer-im-glad-apple-banned-c

by maxklein • 16 years ago

16 43 16 years ago

blog.cubeofm.com

mooism2• 16 years ago

He's happy basically because Apple has raised barriers to entry against some of his (potential) competitors.

Exactly this - the points he makes in the article are all correct, but they're all related to monopoly. His point is merely 'Anything that prevents others making better products is good for me'. That may be, but it's bad for the consumer.

It's like if Microsoft made it harder to write Office software for Windows, it would be good for sales of MS Office, but wouldn't be good for the consumer if it prevented people developing competing, better software.

maxklein7• 16 years ago

What about the case where a large amount of apps are in the store. This is bad for both the consumer and the seller.

stcredzero• 16 years ago

Control brings certain benefits, but there's a trade-off. The trade-off is less innovation on your platform in the long term. I think Apple made this choice deliberately. They'd rather have more control over image and UX and let everyone else "innovate" features in software, then follow with their own slick version.

They remind me of the old Mercedes in this regard.

sounddust2• 16 years ago

I don't know the author of this blog, but am I the only one here who thinks his post was satiric?

wallflower• 16 years ago

The author of this blog is someone I know of only through HN, and I respect him because he has created a viable business selling iPhone apps. Also, it appears he is mentoring others to follow his franchise strategy.

> I sell apps on the app store. A lot of small cheap apps. Revenue is hitting $1000 per day on the weekends (Here is the graph: http://imgur.com/T0z5p.png).

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1060019

OT: Max, what are your thoughts on the Federal Bureau of Apps? I'm amused and perplexed. They have a Cell Phone Locator app that is consistently in the top App Store revenue lists and has thousands of reviews (around 2 star average rating). How much if this developer's success and what part is pay-no-attention-to-the-man-behind-the-curtain strategy and marketing?

keltex2• 16 years ago

Ironically I'm sure he would be happy if somebody came out with a cross compiler that would let him build his iPhone applications and have them run natively on Android devices.

Come to think of it... why hasn't anyone done this yet?

j_baker4• 16 years ago

Sorry, but "I'm glad because I don't have to learn something new" just isn't a convincing argument to me. If something is useful and worth learning, the short-term cost of learning something is repayed many times over in the long term.

And I think that Flash and other cross-compilers are worth the time in the long term. Using just one programming language exclusively is like having a hammer. The thing about hammers is that when they're all you have, every problem has a nasty habit of turning into a nail.

maxklein7• 16 years ago

Using a cross-compiler is like having a hammer and using it for nails, screws, thumbtacks etc.

There is this myth that any programmer can learn lots of new languages. That just is not true. Most programmers are good in just a few languages - the rest they are not good in.

tomh-• 16 years ago

It is true, a programmer can learn lots of new languages. It is mastering all the libraries and infrastructure which is time consuming. And you guys are all forgetting that writing large portions of your code in c++ is at the moment the most portable solution. It works on IPhone, IPad, Android NDK, PSP, Xbox, PS3, PC, Mac etc. The only thing you need to do is to hookup the platform specific gui code to your app logic.

j_baker4• 16 years ago

"Using a cross-compiler is like having a hammer and using it for nails, screws, thumbtacks etc."

Fair enough. But Apple didn't just forbid cross compilers. They essentially forbade anything that wasn't originally written in C, C++, Objective-C, or javascript.

"There is this myth that any programmer can learn lots of new languages. That just is not true. Most programmers are good in just a few languages - the rest they are not good in."

I don't really see the relevance. Most programmers are good at a few languages, but those few languages are very different from developer to developer. Forcing every developer to choose from a limited subset of languages (especially the ones given) is just artificially limiting the developers who are willing to program on the iPhone. How many more developers would program on the iPhone if they could use C# or Python? I'd bet the number would be higher. And this is a good thing for the consumer.

scott_s3• 16 years ago

I think you're misunderstanding the technical terms. Apple has not disallowed cross-compiling. That's the practice of compiling for architecture Y while developing on architecture X.

What Apple has effectively disallowed is developers using an abstraction layer on top of C, C++ or Objective C. An analogous situation would be being told you can't write your program in C, you must write it directly in assembly.

rimantas• 16 years ago

  And I think that Flash and other cross-compilers
  are worth the time in the long term. Using just one
  programming language exclusively is like having a hammer.

And working withc cross-compilers ir like having only a broad brush. Yes, it will get the stuff painted, but it will never look polished.

cawhitworth• 16 years ago

Or: "I've found a niche! Don't let other people into my niche, they might do it better/cheaper/faster!"

maxklein7• 16 years ago

It's more: I'm glad more people are not coming into my niche. If they did, devs will adapt, but if they are being kept out - well, that's good news.

scootklein• 16 years ago

this seems like a common "if you can't beat em, join em". you would've been better off counting your objective-c learning as lost time and moved to a cross-compiler like everyone else (since they support publishing to multiple platforms and can do tween animations :D).

you're not entitled to anything being an iphone developer, and specifically ripping on cross-compilers because they found a more efficient way to do it means you aren't willing to adapt. your loss

jey• 16 years ago

That's not what a cross-compiler is. You're using a cross compiler to code for iPhone unless you are compiling natively on the iPhone. (i.e, A cross-compiler is a compiler that generates code for a platform other than the one it's run on. So unless your "Flash cross-compiler" is written in Flash...)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cross-compiler

philk• 16 years ago

As a midwestern corn farmer, I'm glad the US has placed tariffs on Brazilian ethanol.

flatline• 16 years ago

"Developers are lethargic - they are not springing about learning new languages"

Damn, guess I'm not much of a developer. I mean, if I wanted to build something real in Obj-C, I would take a hit up front like anyone else to learn my way around, but the developers I've worked with who don't want to learn new things are NOT the ones I'd be worried about competing with.

rbanffy6• 16 years ago

"Developers are lethargic - they are not springing about learning new languages"

I am learning Erlang and playing with Clojure.

It's not any new language. It's just that ObjC is not very attractive.

Luc• 16 years ago

I don't know the exact nature of Max's 'many small apps', but given that Apple comes down on Flash, I wouldn't put it past them to come down on cookie-cutter apps, too.

maxklein7• 16 years ago

Could happen, but if flash devs were let in, it would happen even quicker.

zephyrfalcon• 16 years ago

"If a new popular cross-platform framework suddenly arrived, I would have to go back and relearn it."

That is the way of things when you're a developer.

edster• 16 years ago

As a person whose is in a position similar to his, I agree with the spirit of his comments.

Basically, what are things of value in this world? Scarcity is probably the biggest driving force, especially when coupled with demand. It's what drives the prices of precious metals and stones, truffles, caviar, etc.

The same logic applies to any business. A high barrier to entry is one way that a business keeps competition at bay. Specialization of skills is another. Of course, having a specialized skill loses its value when there is no demand for that skill.

As a programmer, part of my job is learning new things before everyone else so I can stay ahead of the curve. Once the world catches up and the technology becomes commodity, the money dries up. For almost all things related to technology, from hardware to software, it's a race to the bottom so you had better jump to the next train which is still moving.

jaustin• 16 years ago

I think he's looking at it from the wrong starting point, and getting confused about who is benefiting.

1. Apple are increasing the barrier of entry for him in to OTHER mobile development worlds - he's no longer able to develop a solution that is easily portable to Android, WinMo, BB, for example. He's betting his ability to write popular mobile apps on the fact that Apple will always provide him the platform he needs, and (more worryingly) that they will continue to keep his App in the App Store. If Apple chose to duplicate the functionality of his app themselves, he can't easily move to providing it for Android - so he's screwed. I contest that his job is less secure than ever.

2. His last point suggests he's made himself more valuable and unique by learning ObjC. That's nice for him, but it isn't a reason to be happy with the new ruling from Apple: if anything, the new T&Cs likely to result in MORE ObjC developers, so reducing how remarkable he is as a programmer.

maxklein7• 16 years ago

You actually make very good points, and I think you are correct. The way I advocate functions in the short term, but in the longer term, your way is better.

rbanffy6• 16 years ago

The simplest route around this problem is to cross-compile to ObjC source. Is that too hard a problem?

scott_s3• 16 years ago

That's exactly what Apple has disallowed.

rbanffy6• 16 years ago

Apple also forbids me from making notes with pen and paper before I start writing source-code because then the paper notes are the original representation of my ideas and I rarely represent my ideas as Objective-C code.

Actually, I am more inclined to think the synapses and neurotransmitter concentrations in my brain are the original representation of the program, but that's another story. ;-)

zacharypinter• 16 years ago

"For Apple, they are following the Microsoft Mantra: focus on the developers."

Seems comically false to me...

As an iPhone developer, I'm glad Apple banned cross-compiling

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