OpenBSD: Use the space freed up by sparc and zaurus to import LLVM

https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-cvs&m=147294297501630&w=2

by protomyth • 10 years ago

80 52 10 years ago

akerro2• 10 years ago

No such message.

protomyth2• 10 years ago

What the heck? Its there one minute then deletes when I refresh. Ok, an article link is: https://twitter.com/bob_beck/status/772205499949481985 and http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OpenBSD-A...

[edit: mods can you update?]

pygy_• 10 years ago

The mark.info link works just fine. Here are the first few lines, if it doesn't load from somewhere else:

    [prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] 

    List:       openbsd-cvs
    Subject:    CVS: cvs.openbsd.org: src
    From:       Pascal Stumpf <pascal () openbsd ! org>
    Date:       2016-09-03 22:47:02
    Message-ID: 9a28502641f17805 () openbsd ! org
    [Download message RAW]

    CVSROOT:    /cvs
    Module name:    src
    Changes by: pascal@cvs.openbsd.org  2016/09/03 16:47:02

    Log message:
        Use the space freed up by sparc and zaurus to import LLVM.
        
        ok hackroom@
        
        Status:
        
        Vendor Tag: LLVM
        Release Tags:   LLVM_3_8_1
        
        N src/gnu/llvm/Makefile.common
        N src/gnu/llvm/llvm.spec.in
        N src/gnu/llvm/configure
        N src/gnu/llvm/LICENSE.TXT
        N src/gnu/llvm/README.txt
        N src/gnu/llvm/Makefile.config.in
        N src/gnu/llvm/.clang-format
        N src/gnu/llvm/LLVMBuild.txt

... 6200 lines later ...

        N src/gnu/llvm/lib/Linker/LinkModules.cpp
        N src/gnu/llvm/resources/windows_version_resource.rc
        
        No conflicts created by this import


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steveklabnik• 10 years ago

From what I hear, one of two DNS servers is down, so if you get lucky, you see the page, and if you get unlucky, you don't.

Google cache is here: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:...

akerro2• 10 years ago

wut it's back now.

wolf550e• 10 years ago

Why under src/gnu ? It's not a GNU project, it's not under GPL.

tomjakubowski• 10 years ago

Check the README :-)

http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/gnu/README?rev=...

Esau• 10 years ago

Seems to me that it should be renamed.

jaytaylor• 10 years ago

I really dig that the entire source tree is navigable and viewable via a familiar FS-like tree layout: http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/#dirlist

And wish github provided navigation that was as easy and lightweight as this.

flupzor• 10 years ago

See the README file in src/gnu/

http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/~checkout~/src/gnu/...

tobik• 10 years ago

src/gnu already has Perl in it, which isn't a GNU project or under the GPL either.

avar2• 10 years ago

Perl is dual-licensed under the GPL & the Artistic license: https://github.com/Perl/perl5/blob/blead/README#L83

rwmj• 10 years ago

I have a soft spot for Zaurus as it was my first "smartphone". Compared to the smartphones of today, the UI was horrible, X11 used through a stylus with applications that were barely any different from desktop apps. However you could compile Linux programs [small ones, at least] and run them on your phone!

rasur• 10 years ago

I don't remember my Zaurus -ever- acting like a phone (it would have been cool if it had!).

Everything else you write, I completely agree with.

protomyth2• 10 years ago

So, of the list of current platforms:

  alpha     Digital Alpha-based systems
  amd64     AMD64-based systems
  armv7     ARM-based devices, such as BeagleBone, BeagleBoard, PandaBoard ES, Cubox-i, SABRE Lite, Nitrogen6x and Wandboard
  hppa      Hewlett-Packard Precision Architecture (PA-RISC) systems
  i386      Standard PC and clones based on the Intel i386 architecture and compatible processors
  landisk   IO-DATA Landisk systems (such as USL-5P) based on the SH4 cpu
  loongson  Loongson 2E- and 2F-based systems, such as the Lemote Fuloong and Yeeloong, Gdium Liberty, etc.
  luna88k   Omron LUNA-88K and LUNA-88K2 workstations
  macppc    Apple New World PowerPC-based machines, from the iMac onwards
  octeon    Cavium Octeon-based MIPS64 systems
  sgi       SGI MIPS-based workstations
  socppc    Freescale PowerPC SoC-based machines
  sparc64   Sun UltraSPARC and Fujitsu SPARC64 systems

There still seem to be a few that aren't supported by LLVM

notaplumber6• 10 years ago

OpenBSD has long included multiple system compilers as required for supported platforms, at one point gcc 4.2.1, gcc 3.3.6 and gcc 2.95.3 (!) were in the tree. OpenBSD 5.4 was the last version to include gcc2 for a.out/static lib platforms like vax. After 5.5 most platforms were ported to ELF and gcc3 or gcc4 (..if not memory constrained) by Miod Vallat, even when it meant writing compiler backends. At that point gcc2 was finally removed (..along with a lot of old a.out/static architecture cruft that had accumulated).

Now that LLVM/Clang is in, the potentially viable platforms (i386/amd64/armv7?) can work toward switching, while gcc4 remains for the ones that can't yet. I believe m88k is only gcc3 platforms left, but there's a very passionate guy in Japan interested in keeping his OMRON LUNA-88K and LUNA-88K2 workstations alive.

This may all seem strange, but OpenBSD has always strongly been against cross-compiling beyond perhaps initial platform bring up. This means being able to compile a release and packages on the physical machine must work.

kev0092• 10 years ago

mips, ppc and sparc64 are in theory fine on llvm already, in practice there are issues but nothing that can't be worked through, especially given past work OpenBSD has shown on gcc. All 3 are commercially viable for at least a decade.

m88k and sh4 are the odd ducks, and if there were a backend wow that would be painful to build llvm on natively :)

coredog64• 10 years ago

What is the value in continuing to support Alpha, SGI, and PA-RISC?

Were they cool in their day? Sure. But the consumer router you use to hook up an O2 or an Octane to the internet has a more powerful MIPS CPU.

notaplumber6• 10 years ago

There have been many advantages to running on different platforms, which have various quirks.. different endians, page sizes, strict alignment requirements, stack-grows-up machines (hppa).

It also helps to have systems that are slow or have low memory, occasionally they hit bugs that are unnoticed on modern hardware.

Alpha may have been interesting in that it had some peripheral similarities to PC machines, but were actual 64-bit computers in the 90s. For kernel driver hackers, popping in a PCI network card that was probably never tested on anything besides a x86 PC, getting it to pass packets, and then making it your home firewall, was a thing of beauty.

bch• 10 years ago

I think of machines like these (disparate architectures (endianess, buses, processors)) as sort canaries, or watchmen for Good Code. NetBSD (my preferred OS) is the same in supporting multiple architectures with one codebase, and I like to think it strengthens the operating system for all platforms.

justin663• 10 years ago

But the consumer router you use to hook up an O2 or an Octane to the internet has a more powerful MIPS CPU.

Which consumer routers have 64-bit MIPS CPUs? I thought they'd mostly settled on mediocre 32-bit CPUs.

hapless2• 10 years ago

An Octane is still much more powerful than your average consumer router. Don't underestimate the value of memory bandwidth.

That said, the real reason these platforms continue to exist because volunteers continue to maintain them. You would have to ask those individuals what value they derive from the hobby.

eb0la• 10 years ago

There are a lot of 10+ year old pa-risc machines out there than cannot be replaced. I remember an optic fiber network currently in use that had embedded pa-risc in underwater equipment, which means they had to be under maintainable for the 25 years of useable life of the cable.

If anyone knows some similar example please let us know.

ams6110• 10 years ago

The value is probably that there are OpenBSD developers who want to continue supporting these platforms.

crest• 10 years ago

Running on such systems keeps the developers honest. No mass produced CPU implements as aggressive visible memory access reordering as Alpha AXP CPUs and SPARC faults on unaligned memory accesses while other platforms "just" take a performance hit.

pbiggar• 10 years ago

What's the deal with "Use the space freed up"? Does this mean there are disk space limits to the OpenBSD distro, and that something has to leave to make space for something new? Or is it a joke I'm not getting?

notaplumber6• 10 years ago

It's those line deletion/addition ratios man, it has to even out.. or preferably favor the left side.

But seriously, it's often said that the tree is now full, you need to remove something unmaintained before you add may something new.

..more seriously, while it may not be noticeable by DVCS users, working directory sizes for CVS/SVN repositories can actually /decrease/ when code is removed.

gkya• 10 years ago

Guess: OpenBSD has wide embedded use, so they may want to keep the base image as small as possible.

OpenBSD: Use the space freed up by sparc and zaurus to import LLVM

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