Ask HN: How To Become Quantitative Analyst And Achieve Greatness?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1238906

by cleancode • 16 years ago

20 24 16 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I've been reading Hacker News for half a year so far. I have to admit I am impressed. I really like the hackers community. Open source world is main inspiration for me, because I know there are smart and wise people who are hungry for knowledge. These people are the future. They code and do research not only for money, but for the better good. Great life philosophy.

So when my grandfather became paralyzed (3 months ago) I saw it everything more clearly. I want to help people and do my best.

I'm 20 years old. I decided to change my life 3 months ago. I like computers and finance world since my childhood. So 3 months ago I started to learn Python and Math. And I love it! I am so passionate about it now. I applied for CS degree at the most prestigious university in my country and I got the opportunity to study there.

I am very interested in machine learning and finance world. I would like to do quantitative research and beat that mean sharks at Wall Street. I have no bad intentions and I don't see any value in buying expensive things. My dream is to donate research from my earnings.

I have got the passion. I just need the direction. There is so much things to learn. What is the most important thing in this field? Should I focus to mathematics first and then start to learn programming?

What market should I choose? I am familiar with Futures and Forex. Forex seems to be very dangerous but more accesible for students (funding requirements).

Do I need to know more then this for start?

http://measuringmeasures.com/blog/2010/3/12/learning-about-machine-learning-2nd-ed.html

http://pindancing.blogspot.com/2010/01/learning-about-machine-learniing.html

http://quantivity.wordpress.com/2010/01/10/how-to-learn-algorithmic-trading/

You may have noticed that English is not my native language. I apologize for grammar. Thank you for your answers. I really appreciate it!

pg3• 16 years ago

If your goal is to do something to make a difference in the world, are you sure you want to become a quant? I think you may be misleading yourself about the degree to which you can participate in that world without becoming part of it. Swim with the sharks, and you become one.

Why not make money the way Larry & Sergey or Jobs & Woz did, by creating wealth?

cleancode5• 16 years ago

Well, great insight.I haven't thought about it. You changed my opinions. But as you know when you master your expertise after 10 years you can make a lot of money by investing.

These people are rare exceptions. I am just not sure if I can invent something so great as they did.

I am also interested in computer security. I would love to create OpenBSD-like user-friendly system and sell only hardware like Apple. But it is so improbable. Masses are not interested in secure system. They want a pretty and easy to use system. So it is really hard to work on things in which you have passion, interest and make big money as well.

My main tendency is to donate research. There are smart people who are short on money. I could pay for their education etc. Creating another Google is hard task, but make money for honest poor student is not so hard. It is quite difficult to make a decision now.

gtani• 16 years ago

Try to do database web apps or whatever technology, for non-profit organizations in your area. It's a great experience, meeting different kinds of people, and you can often choose your technology. I've worked with blind and people with all kinds of disabilities, and for a women's shelter.

pg3• 16 years ago

Successful traders are also rare exceptions. In fact I suspect the odds are better for making money by creating wealth than by speculation, especially if you're willing to work in less sexy domains.

ErrantX• 16 years ago

> I am also interested in computer security.

If your smart, can do some programming and are able to think on your feet this is a multi billion dollar industry right in front of you :)

ggruschow2• 16 years ago

I'm probably not quite as successful as PG is in his space, but I've done embarrassingly well in the area under discussion.

Sadly, I can't disagree with the assessment about studying to become a quant. Odds would be higher if you simply picked up the books and tried to trade yourself. Otherwise you'll likely be sucked up into a big firm and get lost in that mess.

That said, I don't know what the relative odds are vs founding Google or Apple. It seems kind of like wondering which state's lotto to put your money in.

nearestneighbor2• 16 years ago

What books do you recommend?

jayruy4• 16 years ago

> Why not make money the way Larry & Sergey or Jobs & Woz did, by creating wealth?

Why not make money the way David Shaw or Jim Simon or Paul Wilmott did, by adding liquidity to global markets that have modernized economies and provided stable living conditions for communities that came from nothing.

Or you could make fun tech toys for the most privileged 1% of the world.

Of course neither side is that simple, but please don't mistake PG's preaching for the truth.

keefe• 16 years ago

Waiting is until fullness. You have got a great start, but be very careful not to burn out. Do not rush and realize that it's OK to be learning. Work on whatever is fun for you and do not expect to accomplish anything yet. I would suggest that you start with simulations, NOT real money. After you are successful for some months, do it for real.

As far as practical links :

http://academicearth.org/courses/machine-learning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Support_vector_machine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_finance

http://tepper.cmu.edu/master-in-computational-finance/index....

loganfrederick• 16 years ago

Hey CleanCode,

I'm also 20 with very similar interests as yours. You don't have an email listed, but I'm hoping you could email me at loganfrederick@gmail.com to talk to you more about quantitative analysis and computational finance!

cbare• 16 years ago

Hi, There are so many cool applications of machine learning that you'll find plenty that are fascinating, good for the world, and will keep you out of the poor-house. Models of complex systems from economics to linguistics to biology are built with the same toolkit of techniques. Have fun and good luck.

cleancode5• 16 years ago

Is here anybody successful as a quant and can tell us his story (life as a quant)?

ig1• 16 years ago

Learn the basics and go and work for a hedge fund or a bank. There's a huge amount of knowledge which just isn't written about and the easiest way to learn about it is to work with people who know about it. Plus you'll get much better datasets to work with then you'll be able to get on your own.

Check out the forums on wilmott.com for suggestions on books and the like as that's where a lot of quants hang-out.

secret• 16 years ago

Here's a post of mine that may help: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1173683

subud• 16 years ago

http://www.ederman.com/new/index.html

jayruy4• 16 years ago

Congrats for your newfound love and condolences for your grandfather. Tread carefully - intellectualizing love is existentially rocky territory.

I have worked in algorithmic trading, hedge funds, and investment banking. I have degrees in CS and Mathematics.

There are a rare few people who have walked these footsteps - see Jim Simon of Renaissance or Doyne Farmer of Prediction Company. And of course there are more you never hear of because they don't have enough money or interest to garner media attention. This community is not an open community because unlike the open source world, it is not beneficial to share knowledge. Governments have to force them to.

One question I wonder if you've considered: do you feel comfortable working within boundaries that governments have the power to change? It's an aspect of the job I find interesting, but I feel many members here would find frustrating.

Mathematics is far more important than C.S. at crafting algorithmic trading strategies, but developers are in far more demand. Quant shops only really need one genius, and maybe a few in training in case the first gets hit by a bus.

In terms of what mathematics: you're going to need stochastic calculus, but don't worry about that yet. Unless you are blessed you're going to need a PhD in math or physics. The importance isn't the thesis, but the topical knowledge along the way regarding which relationships break down under what conditions. Most entry-level quants go for the PhD and pick up stochastic calc while job searching. Machine learning is no panacea: regression (a form of machine learning) is the oldest trick in the book.

So I'd suggest forgetting about finance altogether until you absolutely have to. If you're absolutely serious: ride the academic train for as long as you can. It's not easy riches, but neither is quant finance. Easy riches is swapping MBO's to your buddies on comission.

jayruy4• 16 years ago

Also on a more practical note: take note of high-frequency data costs. FX is the only asset class you can study in detail without major financial backing because of the costs.

This seems to happen even in academia: research in CDS's seemed slim before the financial crisis, I imagine partly because the major U.S. data provider has enjoyed monopoly pricing.

cleancode5• 16 years ago

> Tread carefully - intellectualizing love is existentially rocky territory.

I am aware of this. Now after reading your comment I need also a self-confidence and optimism to all that. I am just not sure if I can handle all this. I mean I am smart but not genius for sure. Is it worth it to persist in this field even if I have no talent in mathematics?

jayruy4• 16 years ago

Yes - as I mentioned regardless of quants there will always be heavy demand for mathematically-minded developers in finance. As far as enterprise development goes, it's a great (well funded) industry to work in. Technologies tend to focus on proven fault-tolerant methodologies - think .NET/Oracle stacks instead of Ruby/Cassandra or whatever the flavor of the month is on the internets.

Don't sell yourself short on mathematics before undergraduate - the nature of mathematical talent changes the deeper you get into a particular topic. But yes: if your goal is to become a quant, do not think it will be easy to get into the industry without a PhD.

Ask HN: How To Become Quantitative Analyst And Achieve Greatness?

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