Want Passionate Kids? Leave 'em Alone

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/wantpassionatekidsleaveemalone

by epi0Bauqu • 16 years ago

51 30 16 years ago

news.yahoo.com

How do you balance this with the fact that kids have short attention spans, or that some kids just aren't great at making themselves put in the hard work necessary to become great at something without prodding from their parents?

bmj3• 16 years ago

There's a fine line. As I mentioned above, our six year old is taking piano lessons. Sometimes he isn't motivated to practice, and there is a fine line between instilling a willingness to work hard and backing off a bit to give him the opportunity to decide for himself what he wants to do.

I'm not sure that kids are immediately equipped to understand the importance of hard work for something they are passionate about. It's certainly possible to instill this in them without being a taskmaster.

dkimball5• 16 years ago

From what I've seen, at least, it seems that children don't have short attention spans intrinsically; they just have short attention spans for what they find uninteresting.

All aristocrat-peasant societies socialize their population to flatter the aristocracy, including by pretending to be interested in their interests; democratic-market societies like the United States are aristocrat-peasant societies in which everyone is treated as an aristocrat. (See www.historyexplained.com for the theoretical model of aristocrat-peasant and tribal societies; but bear in mind that its model of history is wrong. Read _1491: New Revalations of the Americas Before Columbus_; had the northern American Indians only been immune to smallpox, we'd think of democratic-market societies as a shoddy alternative to the one true way of self-controlled tribalism -- which the Middle Ages, too, had been fitfully evolving into.)

So, the problem is not that children have short attention spans; it's that they haven't learned to fake interest in the manner expected in Western societies. (From your name, I'm guessing that you're American or Canadian.) When a Western child, or a member of most types of tribal societies, is bored, he or she doesn't try to hide it; by contrast, when genuinely interested in something, such a person exhibits a passionate interest uninhibited by concepts of aristocratic reserve.

In short: figure out what a child is interested in -- or rather, let the child figure that out for him- or herself -- and all the rest should come together on its own. Just hope it's not an interest that leads to graduate school in the humanities...

ryanwaggoner2• 16 years ago

You seem to have started with the premise that "tribal" societies are superior in some way. I disagree.

Additionally, kids have parents because they're extraordinarily unskilled at balancing the long-term perspective against the here and now (granted, many adults aren't much better). I find it hard to believe that just letting your kids do whatever they want is really the path to greatness for most kids. I think parents should help kids explore their passions but it seems there's a balance to be found where you also don't let your kids give up as soon as it gets difficult. My parents did that too often, and my wife's parents pushed her through the rough spots. I won't go into the whole results, but it's clear to me which is superior.

eru3• 16 years ago

> had the northern American Indians only been immune to smallpox, we'd think of democratic-market societies as a shoddy alternative to the one true way of self-controlled tribalism

Interesting. I don't know. But why did the Eurasians discover America in the first place and not vice versa?

jasongullickson2• 16 years ago

I can say from experience that this is on the right track.

My only addition would be to say that parents need to be ready to "jump" to facilitate new interests while at the same time they'll need to accept the fact that most of these new ventures will "flame-out", and this needs to be allowed to happen without the typical guilt associated with "giving up".

pbhjpbhj5• 16 years ago

Some guilt associated with giving up seems rather a good thing. If you give up because you're just being lazy or because someone made fun of you then you're giving up for the wrong reasons. Some activities that improve ones mindset, health, outlook, happiness are hard and require motivation - developing the ability to persist with something you find hard or challenging in some way is also a very important skill.

Your suggestion only works for parents with near limitless means. If my kid took a passion for piano, say, and we bought a piano we couldn't just buy something else that year if he wanted to do something else and we'd be unlikely to sacrifice our holidays 2 years in a row to indulge him if he's going to quit. You make your bed, you sleep in it.

jasongullickson2• 16 years ago

I would say associating a "cost" has value vs. "guilt".

Most children can understand that choosing one activity may exclude another due to the limited resources available, however making them feel like a bad person because it turns out that they don't like something they thought they would like before they had tried it doesn't seem to have any effect other than to discourage one from trying new things.

bmj3• 16 years ago

We're taking a bit of a combination approach to our kids. Our six year old is currently taking piano lessons, but he can make the decision to stop them if he wants. He's also free to choose another instrument. We didn't prod him into taking lessons, but it was our suggestion.

As far as physical activities go, we are letting him choose his path. We're avid climbers, and take our kids with us to the crag, but never force them to climb. Some days they insist on climbing, other days they're happy exploring the woods. Both kids love riding their bikes (which also fits with our lifestyle), and our older son has taken a liking to soccer (though again, we suggested he try it).

I think it's also important that parents provide the opportunity for their kids to have autonomy. If they aren't exposed to different things, they'll never take the initiative to be passionate about something.

ekanes• 16 years ago

>> I think it's also important that parents provide the opportunity for their kids to have autonomy. If they aren't exposed to different things, they'll never take the initiative to be passionate about something.

Right on. Our kids are a few years behind you (1,3) but my current thinking on this is that they have to do 1 physical activity and 1 other activity, but they can choose 'em.

I wish I could forget 3 years of forced piano lessons as a kid. :)

(I'm talking high-school age more than anytime soon, right now their job is all about playing and having fun.)

pbhjpbhj5• 16 years ago

My parents didn't send me for piano lessons - the other 3 kids in the house went for them though. This meant I only got to start lessons at about 11 (might have been 12) when they realised I actually wanted to have them.

I really enjoyed playing but always felt an earlier start would have given me more chance to learn and progress with that instrument. In short I wish my parents had been more pushy with me (and not just in this as it happens).

blackguardx2• 16 years ago

Where do you go climbing?

bmj3• 16 years ago

Usually Coopers Rock in Morgantown WV or the New River Gorge, near Fayetteville WV.

We also do several road trips each year (the advantage of homeschooling!). This year we're off Hueco Tanks, then Colorado.

zaidf• 16 years ago

Wow that sums it up for me!

Now, if you are a parent and want to HELP your kid with his passion...take 'em to the library, take 'em to the places where they can delve deeper.

My dad took me to the library on weekends so I could check out programming books in middle school.

pbhjpbhj5• 16 years ago

Interpreting the article to fit your suggestion shouldn't you simply let them know that the library is there if they want to try it.

chime• 16 years ago

The trick my parents played on me was "Your uncle was so good at this at your age..." First they taught me to look up to my uncle and I still do. He's an amazing man and I can't write enough about how persistent, hardworking, and optimistic he is. So as a kid, anytime my parents wanted me to do something, they would mention how my uncle could do so much at my age (and it was always true). Instant motivation! Real-life role models are inspiring. Celebrity role models end up in the news embarrassing everyone.

My parents rarely used themselves in the role-model position because if I was mad at them, I would do the opposite. But I can never be mad at my uncle. He's awesome. One of the things they said was that my uncle could use the calculator without looking at the keys. I didn't believe it till I saw it in person. Give him a long ledger and he could add/subtract 50 rows of currency amounts without even looking at the calculator and come up with the right total time after time. I didn't feel like I had to be that good at a calculator because I had a computer. But within 6 months I could type without looking at the keyboard. Inspiration works.

india• 16 years ago

Ahhh yes... But buyer beware as they say... that story doesn't always have a happy ending. The person I used to look up to as a kid turned depressive and into an alcoholic. It is very painful to see a real-life role model nosedive like that and sometimes these things can be impossible to predict.

mousebender• 16 years ago

Link that won't expire:

http://www.livescience.com/culture/children-passions-autonom...

Raphael• 16 years ago

Off topic: Why do Yahoo links expire? It's quite annoying.

michellegreer1• 16 years ago

My mom actually didn't want to take me to tennis lessons. I bugged her about it until she relented. That's why I still play unlike a lot of my friends from high school.

A very good book about this is called Drive by Daniel Pink. It presents case study after case study of why autonomy matters to both kids and adults, some of which were conducted by the Fed. Highly recommended.

Want Passionate Kids? Leave 'em Alone

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