The Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy, a public live-in high school

http://www.wired.com/2013/05/hogwarts-for-hackers/

by Elof • 11 years ago

60 38 11 years ago

Hey look, a rare opportunity to complain about my home state on HN on two consecutive days! There is a similar school in Oklahoma called the Oklahoma School of Science and Mathematics. The legislature founded the school in 1990 and has been systematically trying to defund it ever since[1].

IMSA and OSSM were founded around the same time, are of similar size, history, and philosophy. They are also both members of amazingly-named National Consortium for Specialized Secondary Schools of Mathematics, Science and Technology. If you're looking for a school like this in your area, you should start there[2].

1: http://www.reddirtreport.com/red-dirt-news/ossm-only-adequat...

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Consortium_for_Specia...

troutwine• 11 years ago

Missouri also has a MASMC, which I believe was copied from the Illinois model.

It was a fine schooling model, significantly better than my public school experience. Some students did have emotional trouble with moving away from home at fifteen.

gypsy_heretic• 11 years ago

There's also an Alabama School of Math and Science (asms.net). It's a veritable sanctuary in Alabama for intellectuals.

adenverd• 11 years ago

Arkansas has the same: Arkansas School for Mathematics, Sciences, and the Arts (asmsa.org).

joe5150• 11 years ago

By "Hogwarts" they mean "a school"?

pnachbaur• 11 years ago

Most boarding schools get compared to Hogwarts, and when you add a focus on 'technological wizardry' ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

mixedmath• 11 years ago

I suppose they mean "a boarding school."

Actually, they repeatedly call it a "live-in school." Is there a difference between a live-in school and a boarding school?

thenobsta• 11 years ago

Maybe they are trying to distinguish it conceptually from the private boarding school.

qiqing• 11 years ago

Most IMSA kids I knew went home to their parents on the weekends, every weekend.

Most boarding school kids I knew only went 'home' for summer, winter holidays, spring break, etc.

aappleby• 11 years ago

See also "Texas Academy of Mathematics and Science" :)

arjunbanker• 11 years ago

i am thankful for the opportunity to attend TAMS :)

ih• 11 years ago

Hey Arjun this is Irvin, Chacko's friend from UT, cool seeing your comment here. To be somewhat on topic :-) I went to LSMSA the Louisiana equivalent and am also appreciative of the school and the community it created. It definitely introduced me to computer science much earlier than I would have otherwise...

_gwlb• 11 years ago

These schools are all over the place! I graduated from the Arkansas School for Mathematics, Sciences, and the Arts. Math and science schools are truly fantastic places for advanced high school students to get a quality education.

ridicter• 11 years ago

Arkansas alum here too! Still some of my fondest years!

I think schools like this are _especially_ useful in rural/poor states like our own, where cultural and educational norms are a bit behind. Imagine going from a school where the highest level of math is trig and there are no comp sci courses to one where you can take differential equations, astrophysics, or robotics.

For me personally, it was validating to find a like-minded community where nerdiness is a virtue instead of a scourge.

runevault• 11 years ago

I have to admit, I never expected to see my old HS come up on HN for some reason (though I'm still not used to the and the Arts, I went when it was still just the Arkansas School for Mathematics and Sciences.

Ah, memories.

wgman• 11 years ago

And my former highschool the Louisiana School for Math, Science, and the Arts. I really can't say enough great things about the place.

evancordell• 11 years ago

I also went to lsmsa and had a great experience. Can't really say enough good things about it; it was such an amazing atmosphere compared to the public high school I attended before.

mynameisjohn• 11 years ago

tams was bae

in_cahoots• 11 years ago

IMSA sounds like a great school, and I've always been a bit jealous of the alumnus I've met from there. But I don't know how much we can learn from this model. If you take 650 of the brightest and most motivated students and put them in one place, you're going to get incredible results regardless of the teaching methods. The real challenge is achieiving comparable gains with average or below-average students.

thrownaway24243• 11 years ago

That's an interesting question. Is it even worth the effort to try to achieve academic gains in below-average students? What's the typical improvement we should expect there? For that matter, do special schools like IMSA achieve any gains in their students, or do they merely select and observe them?

acjohnson554• 11 years ago

I'd flip that question around: can we afford not to?

The consequences of a failing education system are underemployment, unemployment, antisocial behavior, civil unrest, and criminal activity. Even worse, the impact is felt across generations, as children born to parents the system has failed get less enrichment at home than children born to well-educated parents. Case in point, the US's massive educational achievement gap and world-leading incarceration rate.

The word meritocracy was coined [1] to describe a system where resources are lavished on those who have proven their worth. Like the originator of the term, I severely doubt our ability to actually measure intellect/merit/achievement decoupled from unearned advantage and luck.

I'd argue that we should be doing a lot less for the gifted. They'll turn out fine with guidance and resources. If we actually invested the time and resources into the most at risk, we might actually be able to get them up to speed, rather than socially promoting them and kicking them from school to school. Furthermore, I'd posit that an education should be considered a human right, and a bar by which we measure our achievement as a country.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_Meritocracy

davelnewton• 11 years ago

Yes, it is, and it's critical.

A relatively ignorant populace is societal cancer.

the7nd• 11 years ago

The reason you see so many entrepreneurs come out of IMSA is that the students realize they can learn anything. You see the guy across from you ace a test or finish an assignment faster than you thought was possible. You know you are as good as your peers so you push yourself to reach that level.

Once you accomplish everything the school gives you, you want more. You think of new ideas and no longer constrain yourself to what is given to you. This is just one dynamic that happens here. A lot happens when you tell the most driven and brightest to "advance the human condition".

jrock08• 11 years ago

This is something that I'm uniquely qualified to comment on.

I am an IMSA alum who was by and large, a below average IMSA student during my first two years. However, I learned a lot just by being exposed to my very smart classmates. Eventually, in my senior year I matured and started to work harder and got good grades. Had I stayed at my original high school I would have skated through at the top of my classes without much adversity. Then, based on the average college dropout rate of students from my original high school, I would have faced adversity in college and not know what to do. IMSA is a big part of why I am where I am today.

simmons• 11 years ago

This rings true. Many of us start out with very limiting notions of what's possible, and there's nothing like surrounding yourself with bright people to expand the envelope of what seems to be possible.

I attended a school very similar school to IMSA in the early 90's (the Mississippi School for Mathematics and Science), and it was probably the best thing that could have happened to me at that age. I had a pen pal at IMSA who, like me, was sys-admining the school's UNIX server, so it was fun to trade notes. I had plenty of other experiences later in life that expanded my notion of the possible, but attending that school certainly got me on the right path.

acjohnson554• 11 years ago

Great school! I grew up about a 20 minute drive from there, and know a number of alums, including one of my best friends. They tend to be very ambitious, independent, and resourceful people. It's probably not a scalable model, without retooling the pipeline that feeds high school. Most American students aren't trained for the level of independence the school offers at a relatively young age. Heck, most American students aren't prepared for that level of independence by the time they hit university age.

ksml2• 11 years ago

Wow, my high school is on HN!

IMSA was an amazing place. There are so many smart people with so much motivation and it feels like anything is possible there. There is a dark side, though, not often mentioned publicly. Mental health issues are quite common, as could be expected when you put 14-18 year olds in a highly stressful, high-pressure environment, and people generally aren't very physically healthy, either (4.5 hours of sleep a night is common). I had some of my best times and worst times at IMSA.

jianshen• 11 years ago

Mental and Social development is a huge thing to consider here (for all you parents considering your kids for a school like this). You're introduced to college level independence at a ridiculously young age (don't forget the shmen...) and while the academics is top notch, campus life can be challenging to anyone at that age, even if you get to go home on weekends. That said, you'll likely make some pretty remarkable friends for life there...

patio11• 11 years ago

IMSA is indeed a great school. (I went to high school at another well-regarded school in Illinois, and saw quite a bit of IMSA folks deep into the statewide competitions for math team, quiz bowl, debate, etc etc.) I avoided going to it for exactly the reason you mentioned, with the worry that that would be exacerbated by social isolation caused by being away from my family.

I imagine many folks find it a wonderful place to be.

subsaboteur• 11 years ago

This is an old article and I feel like it fails to shine light on some of the issues with this system. As a recent graduate of the Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy I have seen that in recent years, much of the innovative sprit and lust for learning has shrunk. With a model like IMSA's there tends to be an ever increasing amount of bureaucracy. I have heard teachers mention grade quota’s, dealt with an over zealous marketing team who clamped down on student creativity, and the general Silicon Valley “fluff“ that I know plenty of us disliked. However, that being said, the people I met there were awesome. The rigor the school applied on us made us better in the long run, even if it did injure some of our GPA’s. Overall, you go to IMSA for the environment and for the like minded audience over the strict and stubborn academics.

Also as proof I went there: Chickadee dee dee

bfung• 11 years ago

Going to troll a little. At my high school, IMSA was known as just as IA:

"The Math Team at Naperville North ...and won ten consecutive Math Team state championships (1998–2007). ... The WYSE team won the state championship from 1999 to 2005, 2007 to 2009, 2012, and 2013."[1]

IMSA and other high schools in the area were pretty close, as you'd apply to IMSA after doing a year at the other high schools in the area.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naperville_North_High_School#A...

The Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy, a public live-in high school

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