midway

It is possible that an admin changed the title

Still strange. Why should an admin change the submission of a random user if it doesn't breach any of HN's rules?

Maybe because it's not a random submission by a random user?

Guess I must be wrong but would love to hear what that admin who did the change has to say.

While I agree with most what you wrote, I still think that setting up a legal entity is a good first step. Most wannabes struggle with starting. They wait for the perfect idea, the perfect team and so on. They never start. Even if you start with a crappy idea. Ideas will evolve, get pivoted, whatever. My message is about to start and not wasting your time with inactivity like reading random Google Docs by random dudes.

Interesting: The title was changed ('57-Page' was removed) while the comment which classified the prior title as close to click-bait was downvoted.

I didn't know that users could change the title of their submission. How is this possible or is this actually a post by YC?

If latter, a hint would be great that this might be YC promoted content and not actual user content.

Catchy title with strong words ('57-page', 'YC'), no real click-bait but close.

I skimmed the first pages and most of the advice is neither wrong or bad. Still, reading a lenghty 57-note in order to learn is wrong.

You learn by doing. If you want to start something stop procrastinating on HN and execute the first step: found the legal entity for your endeavor. This will keep you busy for the next days, and you learn.

Btw, you don't need to have a good or any idea or co-founder now. This will all come. Just start, make mistakes, stop reading random advice.

Edit: Don't downvote if you disagree, downvote if a comment doesn't add anything to the discussion.

Turn-key ready http2 which is significantly faster.

Not commenting about the transfer but the urge from some to move this to the koajs organization (which is silly request):

Great about koa is that it's not a monoculture like express. express has all batteries included and lacks a healthy ecosystem. Yes, there is a lot stuff out but everything in and around express feels broken. Yes, you can use it and it's ok but you not really happy.

This paired with the same maintainers who also are on connect, express-generator, etc. They do all together a great job maintaining express but you feel the lacking pace in all these project. express still lacks hhtp2 (not turn-key-ready), express-generator is full of strange edge-cases nobody needs (in the www file) polluting your code. express docs got better but still.

But we as a community need healthy competition and if koa-router moved to koajs you'd start the next monoculture and new contenders wouldn't have any chance to establish because there is a default router.

The key to be successful is to build a minimal/barebone product and let others create additions and not swallowing everything into a slow org.

And tbh, I like koa-router but simple stuff like a regex path matching is not included where I need my own middleware (I mean it's a few lines but still).

Everyone who don't like this move, fine, fork koa-router and make it better and we will see if koa-router's new maintainer is a real maintainer who will push the product. Or just write your own router, it's not that hard.

Forking and improving is open source not complaining in dozen threads and pressuring people to hand out a repo (this reminds me of office politics and blackmailing" 'give us the repo or we destroy your and the new maintainer's reputation online'). I think it's more about getting the SEO-relevant Github and npm name 'koa-router'.

So guys, just stop it, welcome the new guy and/or fork, I am happy to yarn add your fork.

Interesting read from Dec 2018 [1] about Next.js:

SSR throughput of your server is significantly less than CSR throughput. For react in particular, the throughput impact is extremely large. ReactDOMServer.renderToString is a synchronous CPU bound call, which holds the event loop, which means the server will not be able to process any other request till ReactDOMServer.renderToString completes.

[...]

Using Pre-Rendered CRA addresses both the SEO and performance concerns around using CRA without the complexity that Next.js introduces

[1] https://codeburst.io/next-js-ssr-vs-create-react-app-csr-745...

they are only adding static types.

The parent says something different and if it were just about adding types then you need just to add a file to DefinitelyTyped which I guess happened already.

Next.js is also going to help you with [...] routing

I respect your experience and knowledge but people in this thread say exactly the opposite: Next.js' routing is actually not helping you.

they started to rewrite the core of Next.js

This is such an important piece of information. Imagine you opt for Next and have to rewrite your app soon. I know, APIs can be backwards compatible and Next's next version will be backwards compatible but there is always something which doesn't work, sending you down the rabbit hole...

How can that be possible? The DNS lookup takes longer than that and you still haven't even gotten to your site.

Me too. But if you ever did marketing landing pages for products you might know that one landing page is not enough. You need thousands which match to Ad Word campaigns or which are optimized to different SEO fields, domains and whatever. While you still could manage this with Next and nice components, Next's subpar routing might be an obstacle.

How can that be possible? The DNS lookup takes longer than that and you still haven't even gotten to your site.

I wrote without networking time which includes DNS lookup

Next.js is some over-engineered thing without a proper use case.

If Next.js was good in SEO, nextjs.org would rank well on the search query 'react ssr' but you know what, it couldn't even rank within the top 10. There's nothing, no nextjs dot org, just a Medium article below the fold. Just want to see your face after you convinced your management and your entire team to move to Next and facing how your organic search volume is nosediving...

This whole thing is pure content marketing paired with forum spamming to get people converted to Zeit's products. I am bit surprised that not more 'real users' defend Next.js here, seems like just some maintainers/contributors could show up worshipping Next. This is all too obvious and maybe young devs fall into your trap.

Btw, I know what JSX is capable of and I prefer it over many things but it's not about JSX or pug or whatever. Next.js is abusing a powerful lib/framework for SSR and templating. SSR is much more, e.g. proper routing, read the thread, Next doesn't get routing (the #1 req of SSR) right and wants to do SSR? Sure.

Sorry but I disagree. Just take any of your a bit bigger React projects and transform them to Next or the way around. In. One. Hour. And production-ready please. Good luck, man (this is vendor lock-in).

prefetching

Prefetching is a questionable and a lot discussed feature, do you want to prefetch all the 50 links on my page? Even if you think this a great feature, I am sure the user using your page doesn't like that you abuse his/her bandwidth. Especially those on mobile.

code splitting

This is not a feature. Automatic code splitting is turn-key-ready in CRA. I wrote this now for the tenth time...

server rendering

I explained this, if you really need SSR, a plain express/pug blows Next out of the water. Speed, flexibility, routing, everything. There is no single reason to use anything like Next.js. And writing a plain express/pug app is trivial and much easier than React, this is 10 years old tech.

I don't want to sound negative but again why is React as SSR 10x better than typical SSRs? It's not, React is great for real SPAs and Next feels to me like, let's jump on the React hype train and generate organic leads for Zeit.

Then why don't you just use the automatic code splitting of CRA?? And it's not generic, if you ever worked on a years old code base you are happy if complexity is low. Do you know if all the page transition libs will play well with Next? They do not play well even with react-router, the standard React routing lib. Code can be more complex than you might think.

This is the wrong question. I use React for SPA use cases and then initial loading time is secondary but I tell you something, my stock React SPA with tons of js and assets has following loading times:

  DOMContentLoad: 1.08sec, Load: 2.26sec

  DOMContentLoad: 1.09sec, Load: 2.31sec

Pls check my other comment, anything you add to your code adds complexity and a natural lock-in. Maintainable code is not about adding every lib which crosses your way.

Of course there is a lock-in. Every lib you use locks you in. You don't know how many libs don't play well together. The more code and libs you add to your app the more complexity.

It's not hard to write code, it's hard to keep code complexity low and maintainable and IDK if Next.js helps here.

Next.js [...] loads a little faster

IDK, my dockerized express site loads much faster. At 20ms without network time (and this w/o caching). My real React SPA give you instant (0ms) page loads.

Nextjs.org initial load is at 580ms and the doc came at whopping 1.38sec (oh yeah) and page loads are not instantly... this thing doesn't make sense (for my use cases). If the only thing I know is React and JSX, then maybe but routing with express is much easier.

=> you want make serious money with SEO => get some real SSR environment

=> you want a great SPA, buttersmooth, interactive, maintainable code => React or other popular SPA libs

Still don't get it. Next.js gives you a vendor lock-in and its features are easily avail w/o Next (eg. automatic code-splitting, this is standard stuff in CRA, why the fuss?). If your business is about SEO then React is the wrong choice anyway. In my understanding SEO is about hundred-thousands or even millions landing pages, keyword management, content spinning, ultra fast loads, AMP, etc. This is really not the field of React or SPAs and you can tweak them as much as you want. React is great to build eg stateful SaaS, interactive stuff, dashboard, nice shop check-outs.

That they rewrite Next doesn't sound more convincing. And why do I need to sign-in on the learn page on Nextjs?

Sorry, not convinced. If you want some brute-force SEO, I'll write you anything in express/pug/style in one afternoon (with millions of landing pages, sitemap generation and smart routing, all comes out of the box with express), without all the baggage React brings along. Nothing against React, it's still one of the best SPA libs there but SSR, no way.

Maybe, I am still missing something but Next.js feels just like content marketing from its company Zeit trying to promote their commercial stuff.

Edit: guys, pls don't downvote if you disagree, downvoting is if comments don't add anything substantial to the discussion. I understand that Zeit is happy about the free promotion for Next on HN and doesn't like such comments but pls stay professional if people question your product without downvoting.

What I don't get: Either you go full SPA or SSR. And If you go for latter then you can choose any stack, e.g. Rails, express with pug, Django, PHP, etc. Why do people take React's constraints to the backend? No bashing, really wondering what's so much better then. I know why a React SPA can be better than a SSR. But what is better about a React SSR vs the typical SSR?

Man, Moonscript looks amazing, reminiscent of pug/Jade.

Anyone experienced Moonscript? How is it, how is the ecosystem, is it fun?

Don't forget that there are also folks writing bad reviews and often not just one. Sometimes they are toxic and got fired for a good reason. We know all these borderliners where everybody wonders how they passed the interviews.

So, there are always two sides of a story. And compared to an Amazon review it's much harder to tell if the product is wrong or its user.

People also tend to forget that they just help Glassdoor's sales. Every negative review they write is another reason for the reviewed company to subscribe for Glassdoor. It's not cheap but even early stage startups can easily afford this.