jonsmock

I believe HN was created with arc[1] to put design pressure on it.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_(programming_language)

Nice article, Jose!

For those interested, Aaron Patterson (tenderlove) talks about this in his RailsConf talk, starting at 26:45.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWOAHIpmLAI

That's about what I was thinking, too. It might be good to explicitly say that they would have a lot of influence over the product, so it would ideally be well-suited to their needs. And, they would have special privileges/discounts/whatever, when it hits the market. What do people think about extending/stating those kinds of things, or does that set expectations too high?

Yeah, serving up two versions simultaneously and split testing them would be more scientific, but I appreciate the number anyway. It was an after the fact observation rather than an original goal, so I wouldn't expect him to go back and deploy the slower version just to test the number.

The hole here is whether or not they unknowingly got a new influx of traffic that was 5% more likely to convert, skewing his final observation, which I would say is unlikely. Your point is good in general, however.

FWIW, I really appreciated the post, Joel. I'm actually in the process of buying a lot of this stuff for myself due to accepting a new telecommuting job. I need to furnish my home office, and as understanding as my wife is, it's hard to explain to her why this costs what it does. I probably won't spend what you do at FogCreek, but it at least relieved me of the feeling that I was misspending our money. (My tentative stack for those that care: MacBook Air, Thunderbolt Display, GeekDesk, and ? for chair)

I think this is essentially what FogBugz does, so if it works for you, I think there's a good argument for using it.

All of these arguments are the same arguments you need to think through when determining whether to make a web app vs. a native app on the desktop. They're identical, because the desktop is just another device.

I completely agree with all the arguments, except possibly that we should never use hacks. We used (and still use) hacks on the web for desktop use when browsers sucked, and we'll do it on mobile devices, too. It's the way the state-of-the-art is pushed forward; it's inevitable. I think he would agree with me, seeing that he pointed out Scrollability's use on the iPad being somewhat valid. That said, the author's underlying point examines why we use those hacks and to evaluate whether we're solving a non-existent problem.

Edit: I might clarify my hacks point. The reason they're inevitable is that they sometimes expose browser deficiencies. A current example would be web sockets. We've been using comet-type hacks in lieu of a real web socket solution (and Chrome has now implemented one).

Agreed. The minute you know the feature does have traction and won't go away any time soon is the minute you clean or rewrite that code.

This may be semantics at some level, but I think it's important to not imply you just don't care about the quality of your code. Prototyping intentionally sacrifices some quality to prove a point quickly, but once the point is proven, you throw it away and rewrite with your normal, high standards.

Oh no, now he has no motivation to do any open source! :-P

In addition to the argument for keeping your styles together, CSS is declarative while Javascript is imperative. There are just less moving parts in CSS, and the browser keeps track of any "state" that you would be tracking in Javascript.

My favorite part is at 2:42 when they show the fairly plain dashboard, and you see a lone toggle switch marked "Fly".

Absolutely agree. I help move some of the poorer families at our church, and I'm always astounded at where their money is spent. One family wore hand me down clothes and had little else in their house, but they had a 60"+ TV in their living room.

Most families have a TV, and just about every TV you can purchase these days has HDMI. I'm incredibly sad when my teacher friends describe how few of their students have computers at home to do their work.

The only problem is that he's still stressing about money at that point. If he has even 300 people willing to pledge $8/month, he can bank on $2400/month and adjust his living expenses accordingly, if necessary. I'm sure there are people that would give $500+ in one shot, but then he has to set a runway, keeping asking, etc. in order to continue that. PG has talked about how much raising money is a distraction, too.

Not saying it's not a possibility, just saying there are advantages in not offering a one-time donation. If you still want to give, I'm sure he would accommodate you, if you contact him (he's very friendly).

After about a day of thinking on this, I think I've come around. I still don't think I would have pulled the trigger on this, but I respect the people that did.

And, again, I absolutely love CoffeeScript and support it 100%. I'm less infatuated with HAML and SASS, but it may simply be that I haven't used them enough. SASS in particular looks very useful.

Regardless, I agree with DHH's tweet yesterday [1] that Rails is a curated set of ideas/technologies. Pretty much by definition it's not one-size-fits-all. I think this is the first time I've found myself on the opposite side of a Rails technology switch decision, which is pretty amazing. I'm looking forward to giving it a chance, and I can always switch back, if it doesn't work out.

[1] http://twitter.com/#!/dhh/status/58286524151775232

Totally agree - and the HAML/SASS argument is perfect. We talk a lot about web standards and doing things that are "native" to the web, but abstracting things like HTML/CSS/javascript (by default) don't fit with that mindset.

I like CoffeeScript, and it does feel Rubyesque, but I just don't support it being the default.

That said, I'm sure a core member will post about the decision, and I almost hope they convince me otherwise. I do really like CoffeeScript, and patio11's comment about HAML/SASS is a good one.

I think it's the layout of your site plus the brevity of the post that confused everyone (including me). I couldn't distinguish what I was supposed to look at, what was image and what was post text, etc.

It's cool to celebrate "small" contributions to OS projects, because it will encourage more to do the same. But, I'd write up a bit more explaining that, especially for HN.

I forwarded his recent TED Talk to several of my teacher friends, and many immediately thought this was supposed to be their replacement. So, I'm assuming the first (mis)conception is valid at the very least.

That's the opposite of how I read that. I take it as a comfort that they're doing their best, and they're the best at what they're doing. If they needed food or money, I would gladly send it, but he's saying they don't. Great!

All I know is that I felt conflicted when I saw the tweet. "Do I retweet? It's for a good cause. But, I don't want to support Bing."

I didn't retweet and felt a bit guilty. I didn't want to be used either.

Touche. I'm thinking way too much like a programmer. Thanks for posting that link, it's a good reminder of how different people are.

I definitely do the "want to share but also 'bookmark'" thing with my Twitter updates. And, yes, hashtags somewhat solve this, but not really - at least not for me. I like the idea of lists on Thingist, but I don't want to have to categorize all my tweets.

If Thingist could automatically categorize my updates, but have a way for me to re-organize them, that'd be ideal. Seems like a decent amount of people fall into your same use case, where they tweet quotes, songs, videos, etc. Some of these would be easier to detect than others, but it's somewhat doable.

This seems some like weird cross section between Twitter, Tumblr, and delicious to me.

I definitely agree, especially with the idea of getting your employees further invested in the company, even if it doesn't mean a job/title change. I don't get compensated the way I might somewhere else, but it's awesome to work somewhere where I have influence and my ideas have a shot at being implemented.

Perhaps give your employees stock or the responsibility of making decisions in their specialty areas. Or, give them something like 20% time where they can be creative. Perhaps they'll create some beautiful, original woodwork that gets you press on your blog. Or, perhaps, it just enriches their lives and keeps them happy.

Agreed, the math here is way off. No mention of amortization to either side of the argument: the "saved" $104,000 OR the expected $800,000. Perhaps I invested the $800,000 (or what's left after I pay my student loans)? Depending on how the $800K is distributed over my lifetime, that investment could be well over $1.4mil when I retire.

I want to hear William Shatner read troll comments!

I definitely do this. If I'm actually "watching" a repo, such as tenderlove's ARel repo, I'll put the RSS feed into my reader. Might be a little clunky to do it that way, but that's basically how I get all my other news.

Yes, the relevance should get much better. For instance, I did once click on a StackOverflow ad, because the product sounded interesting.

The other annoyance about advertising is the interruption, which I'm not sure will go away.

So are you confirming that it's a theme? I think most of us were confused from the title "Elementary OS," and the project didn't have an About page to explain what it was.

Definitely needs an "About" page. Here's the first blog post for those looking for a little more information (not much more):

http://elementary-project.com/news/what-is-elementary-and-wh...

EDIT: still digging. Here's another interesting post:

"We mean that we want to be the first to offer a desktop OS that doesn’t include any way for the user to manage files. ... We think that files should be accessed from the applications that the user will use them in."

http://elementary-project.com/news/just-do/

Later, however, they talk about adding Nautilus (a file browser) and somehow adapting to adhere with the above philosophy.

I recently started working in this sector, and I was shocked at the (poor) quality of its software.

I think I've identified a few causes: 1. Design by committee 2. Winners are determined by relationships and lock-in 3. Educators don't care about finding the best, just good enough 4. Great developers don't want to work in this sector

The first should be obvious. Anything run by government tends towards design by committee, and educational software almost tries to be bad in this way.

The second is true of other sectors, but it is especially true in education. Intermediate Units (I work in PA) and school districts don't try to work together by default. Even at the top, deals are done by who knows who or who hates who. And, the enormous cost of switching products for the large systems creates a lock-in environment. People will say/promise anything to get a sale, because they know they will really have to screw up to lose customers.

Third, educators as a rule are afraid of technology or are at least more unaware than anyone here on HN. They don't want to spend the time to learn; they want to spend whatever it takes to get the problem off their plate. Remember, there are a great deal of people who went into education because of the vacation time. Some people really care and work hard, but the percentage is lower than other industries, I think.

Finally, for all the reasons above, the greatest developers don't want to work in education. The bosses are almost never developers; winners aren't determined by quality; most code is CRUD type code with lots of rules and exceptions from state law/procedure.

I get excited at the thought of change, which is why I stay. I want to be part of that change. But, on the low days change seems impossible, and I start thinking about other jobs.

One side note: why isn't there more OS in education? This really bothers me, as it seems like a perfect scenario for it. I'm thinking it goes back to points #2 and #3. People want to pay for something now rather than funding something everyone shares. If I could be part of the change in one way, this would be it (I'm looking for ways now).

EDIT: One more: pay. Because most code is crud code, and because bosses aren't developers who can discern good from bad code, the perception is developers should be paid like teachers (or worse). Not going to attract the great developers that way. In the long run, all these software costs more to develop as a result of not hiring the best, but non-developer bosses can't understand that.

I'm 26, and if I were in your shoes, I guarantee I'd feel the same way (primarily, because I do already somewhat).

If I read this right, you're struggling to feel needed. I know this isn't exactly the same thing as the need to make a difference in the world, but it seems close enough to be actionable.

I say find some people who truly need you and do your best to help them. Is that teaching? Is that fixing their situation? Is that creating a new idea or product? This will take some exploration, but it has to be worth it, right?

And, none of us are perfect. I put the same pressure on myself (I've been programming since 7th grade, and I feel the exact same way about my questionable programming skills). But, we're all still learning, and I'm betting you're smart enough to make a difference in at least one person's life. Then you can extrapolate from there.