aspnet_dev

A lot of ISIS members came back, they faced persecution, some even death sentence but none had their citizenship stripped. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-k-strips-citizenship-is...

Well they shouldn't have been let back in anyway. I also have no sympathy for a woman that said she felt nothing when she saw severed heads (of people executed by ISIS). Also there are claims that she enforced some of the Sharia laws and wasn't a passive member of the Caliphate.

She revoked her citizenship when she left.

Yes, but the point is, is there are a legal treatment which is different for people who have been living here for generations vs those whose parents became a citizen in their lifetimes.

No there is a different legal treatment for people that join a rogue state which literally wants to destroy yours. I don't care about these people. Her supporters can cry racism all they want, It isn't racism. We don't want terrorists back in the country.

I don't want any terrorist that has commited treason coming back to the UK. They can rot for all I care.

The whole story is flamebait. If you don't want it here you should have removed the story.

I never mentioned the race of the labourers. Many weren't white btw. But from your comments you are assuming they are. That btw is racism.

No that's absolutely racism.

Why? Care to explain? I never mentioned the race many weren't white btw that were making a similar complaint.

This is also their racism.

So Spanish people who are basically white are being racist against other white people? Is that what you mean? That isn't racism.

Or British (not all British people are white) are people being racist against Spanish people? Or are you using Hitler's definition of what "white" is which means Northern European.

Either way this is non-sensical.

A special place is reserved for those people who post comments on the Daily Mail complaining about how many immigrants there in England are when they're a British immigrant to Spain.

What are you on about? Nobody said anything about that. I said there are people in Spain that are English that don't assimilate with the local population which is Spanish.

You actually implied it heavily by calling me xenophobic. You know full well they are synonymous. I am not stupid, so don't play silly games with me please.

Your insistence that foreigners can't continue to identify with their own culture while also embracing a new one is aptly described as xenophobia.

Nope. I never insisted that at all. I never even mentioned foreigners. You keep on twisting what I am trying to explain and trying to pervert it into something you wish it to be.

I said that this sub dividing people in the *same nationality* by *race* is an American import to the UK (and from what some of my Belgian and French friends have told me) a import into some parts of Europe as well. It isn't typically done in the UK, France, Belgium and I suspect it is the same in many of the other European countries.

Then I said that working class labourers (not all of them white btw) don't like it when 2nd/3rd or 4th generation immigrants aren't patriotic or don't try to assimilate (like their parents did). I then said these concerns / complaints will always get hand-waived away by people as "racism" when the real problem is a feeling of disrespect. Just like you have.

It got nothing to do with xenophobia as the people I am talking about are British.

If you want to have a sensible discussion, lets start by engaging with what is actually said instead of what we wish was said.

I do. So if you could actually respond to what I said and refrain from this behaviour (which you are now accusing me of) that would be great. Pointing the finger at me, when it is actually you is disingenuous.

I would hope they would take his citizenship away. I don't want a ISIS member coming back to the UK.

The case went through all the legal proceeding and she is not allowed back in the UK. Good!

If she was born in the US, it would be unthinkable.

If they were born in the US, they would have just been assassinated by drone strike instead like they did with Anwar al-Awlaki.

This is rich. Britain colonized half the world, imposing it's culture on dozens of societies around the world while exploiting their labor and natural resources, but god forbid modern day migrants to the UK dare display the flag of their homeland and cherish the traditions of their parents.

This old nonsense. This is the problem people like you will constantly bring up the past and won't let anyone forget about it. None of the people that were involved with that are alive today. Also BTW every country and people have invaded and colonised one another if you go far back enough in time. Are we going to start blaming the Italians for Caesar massacring the Celts and the Gauls? When do you want to stop? 50, 100, 500, 1000 years?

I suspect your xenophobia is a personal foible, not a British sensibility

When did I claim I had a problem with people having another flag up? I didn't say that. I said the labourers in the pub tend to and it has nothing to do with xenophobia (which is you basically euphemism calling them/me racist btw).

If you re-read my comment I actually said that someone would just claim it was racism and not actually try to understand what the real issue is. You did exactly that and you didn't even direct it at the right person. You can never have a sensible discussion about these issues because mid-wits will scream racism almost as it were some Pavlovian reaction.

BTW I am actually a xeno-phile. I actually have lived all over the globe and have only recently come back to the UK.

Only if you're a nationalist.

Nope. That is how the law and the state sees it.

In Europe, France and Romania are different countries, so you don't have "Romanian Europeans" living in France.

I never claimed there were Romanians Europeans living in France. I claimed that if you were happened to be Black and British you were still seen as simply British (until relatively recently). The same is generally true in other parts of Northern Europe as well, I have discussed this with Belgians, Germans and Frenchmen online and they all tell me similar things.

I am complaining that this nonsense of saying you are a White <Nationality> or a Chinese <Nationality> or Black <Nationality> idea has been imported from America. It doesn't make sense here.

"African American" isn't solely about skin color, but also about a shared history, migration path, acculturation, and regional population concentration. It's as much a valid "sub-nationality" of American as "Midwestern" or "Californian".

I don't care what they do in the USA. That is their business. It isn't a thing here and it shouldn't be. Just because we speak English in the UK, doesn't mean we are like Americans.

Remember, America and the EU are on the same order of magnitude in terms of total population and land area. If we didn't have terms for differentiating Americans from each-other, it would be like Europeans having no term to distinguish a Pole from a Spaniard.

I understand this and never claimed the opposite.

Or is Emmanuel Macron also wrong when he also said (and I am paraphrasing) "They are Frenchmen" when an American Talk show host said that Black people won the World cup for France?

In our secular societies you are what your nationality is and your race is irrelevant (or should be considered to be) in the eyes of the state and in the UK it is considered rude to bring up someone's race (other than identifying them).

I will accept that we aren't perfect, but perfect is the enemy of good. Bringing up areas of Europe which I obviously wasn't referring to and have been politically unstable for decades now is disingenuous and simply missing the overall point to be a smartass.

I am in the UK, which geographically is part of Europe. That not how we think here and that is a good thing. I don't want our politics to become racialised like it is everywhere else. All it seems to do is bring division and hatred and unfortunately it has imported from America.

It did - but the "different HTML" you refer to was HTML4 for IE5.5+ or HTML3 to browsers it didn't recognize. Even by 2001 that was a bad idea, and by 2004 Firefox was leagues ahead of IE6's support for HTML and CSS features yet ASP.NET WebForms defaults to rendering HTML3-era HTML to Firefox.

Intranet sites were run on highly locked down machines that were running IE. Don't pretend everyone was running their own browser on their machine. As I said it was intended for intranet sites, all the documentation and all the examples at the time clearly showed these user cases.

...and don't forget all of the problems inherent in user-agent sniffing. Users with too many third-party IE toolbars or shovelware on their computers would see things break (because said third-party software would frequently alter IE's default user-agent string to add their own product-names, which broke things).

So they were running third party things and it broke something else that had no knowledge of them. If someone runs hundreds of chrome extensions and it breaks my site, I wouldn't bother supporting them either. The situation isn't any different.

It was a huge concern because it meant that web-application code could not be run by automated testing tools! That was one of the design-objectives when OWIN was introduced: for greater testability (for unit and integration testing). Otherwise the only way to test WebForms applications was by having a dedicated web-testing farm with web-browsers open on the desktop driven by custom-written automation tools - that just wasn't an option for smaller shops. And Visual Studio didn't add built-in unit testing support until 2005 (only for Enterprise edition), and 2008 (or 2010?) for everybody else.

Almost none of the shops were doing automated testing at the time. People barely do it now in the .NET space.

Another problem was that in the days of WebForms 1.x (before .NET 2.0) the only way to run ASP.NET applications, even for development, was by having IIS installed - but IIS was not available for Windows XP Home Edition (ASP.NET 2.0 introduced the "Cassini" local development web-server, but it was severely lacking and did not faithfully recreate the IIS environment, and IIS Express wasn't introduced until around 2008). People doing hobbyist development at home had to either pay to upgrade to Windows XP Professional (to use the rather limited IIS "5.1") or apply a variety of crude registry hacks to trick the Windows 2000-era IIS 5.0 to run on Windows XP Home Edition.

So on an operating system that was intended for consumer use, they couldn't use advanced stuff like IIS that the home user wouldn't have any use for? Seriously?

What works "quite well" is subjective. ViewState just doesn't scale and is unsuitable for public Internet websites because it balloons the rendered page-size (e.g. if you have an <asp:DataGrid>, used as-directed such that it's only loaded on the initial page laod) then the entire data-grid's data is persisted in ViewState, which practically quadruples your rendered page-size (due to all the hidden control state) - which was unacceptable in the days when 56K modem use was still widespread (even through to ~2006+). Disabling ViewState was essential for any public web-pages, which increased the amount of work required to get things to _just work_. I could go on...

None of this was intended for sites on the internet. I was specifically talking about the RAD tooling. Yet you seem to be talking about things it was never intended to do at the time.

She joined up with ISIS not the best example to bring up. She gave it up there and then. It not like she hooked up with some bad lads and got into a bit of hijinks.

The faction of people that don't believe you are British if you aren't white has to be minority of people. Most of the people that may have brought up the subject are in their Winter years now. Pretending that Enoch Powell is still popular is a nonsense and tbh is nothing more than virtue signalling IME.

I should have expected such a reply. Your comment is exactly what I expect from white collar professional that works an office job.

It is an American import and it is absurd. It also causes division. e.g Many labourers (both skilled and unskilled) see it as a slight for someone who is brought up here and have lived here their entire life to display a flag other than the Union Flag of the St. Georges Cross. I've seen a lot of guys in working man's pubs get quite angry and this sort of resentment is always hand waived away as "racism" when that isn't the problem at all.

Many developers don't spend time with the lower classes / those that aren't university educated which have to deal with the worse parts of immigration. They only see the positive aspects of it.

BTW the same happens with the British in the South of Spain btw. The British reputation in Spain is complete dirt because of the disrespectful party goers and expats. It is due to them not assimilating or even bothering to respect the local culture and language.

If you want to understand why Biden and Obama are called socialists, I suggest you do some reading of the Anarcho-Capitalist literature (Anatomy of the State is the most obvious) or maybe listen to someone like Peter Schiff.

I don't agree with their philosophy as I believe it to be unrealistic but their criticisms and descriptions of what the state is and isn't is valid and why some call it socialist may make more sense to you. Hans Herman Hoppe (I am sure someone will quote mine him to smear him after I've mentioned him and haven't read any of this books) even called Democracy a soft form of communism.

In Europe the notion of someone being a African Frenchmen or a African English is absurd. You are your nationality.

Unfortunately this export from America is starting to take root in Europe.

I will agree with some of your criticisms. However there are some things that aren't pertinent.

While the HTML is awful in earlier versions was IME of no concern. Most intranet apps just need to be functional not slick. I am sure it served different HTML based on the user-agent but I could be mis-remembering now as it was well over 15 years ago.

The lack of being able to run it on anything other than IIS isn't a concern. Most places using WebForms were Microsoft shops and whatever your opinion of IIS and Windows server maybe they weren't going to be running their ASP.NET app on a Linux server.

Most of the problems I've encountered was when people tried getting around the framework itself and rebuilding what already worked quite well within the framework (many people used to use large string builder objects in the code behind files in the page load event rather than using Web Components and building their custom HTML in there, I suspect it was because they didn't understand the Page/Component lifecycle).

I'm actually trying to get away from using .NET entirely (I am bored of the language, the frameworks and most importantly I don't like working with the developers who can't do anything outside of Visual Studio to save their life). But I do think the framework get unfairly maligned because of the quality of programmers that were using it. It is the same with VB.NET, the language isn't the best but the RAD aspect of it hasn't been bettered by anything IME.

Having a proper doc type and having a specific IE stylesheet that added zoom:1 property to element could fix a lot of that off the bat and was a simple one to include on a webpage. Transparent PNGs of course wouldn't work (well there was a way but it was an arcane trick and I can't remember it for the life of me now).

TBH I found cross platform development during that time easier than when smart mobile phones came out. There was about 20-30 slightly incompatible forks of the Android Browser/Webkit and the processors were slow and everything was JS. Blackberry OS was still a thing. I also don't miss the problems with iPhone 3GS and 3D background layer flickering.

Also programming cross platform at the time showed me how to write lightening fast JS. That has made me a lot of money when people come to me to fix their crap web apps.

WebForms is still one of the quickest things to actually build intranet applications with and it still does it incredibly well.

If I wanted to have a editable table (datagrid) control it literally took about 20 minutes and I had something working and people could use it.

The problem with it (much like Angular which btw is basically webforms for JavaScript) is that it required you learning how the event lifecycle worked properly. Whereas other things at the time were web scripts and you could just hack against.

It of course had a lot of problems (like everything on the web at the time) but for what it was actually intended for, it was actually really good.