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You are confusing a sense of accomplishment for happiness. That suggests that you may not have felt happiness enough (or recently enough) to recognize it.

Why 10 years? Given that we've known what a mess the software development world is for 50 years and nothing has improved, what makes you think anything will be better 10 years from now?

Why do you think responding to "you are making a bunch of uninformed assumptions" with more uninformed assumptions is productive? Protip: some of us saw this site when it was made 2 years ago. Some of us are even aware of the context of 37signals founders being abusive on twitter that the site was created in response to. That does not mean we are all the people who made the site.

I'd be extremely surprised if they can. Just because there are a lot of options, doesn't mean there's any good ones. Tons of nearly identical, virtually featureless products does not make it easier to find one that actually does the job.

Judging from the fact that their service has good reviews in major media and millions of users

They have no reviews in major media. They have both good and bad reviews in minor media. The "millions of users" claim is not supported at all.

Any examples? Surely those mythical people know how to save a screenshot, right?

Yes, I happen to collect screenshots of things that are well known every time anyone talks to me about anything just in case some random redditard wants proof that the sky is blue.

That's not funny or educational or even interesting.

Two of those are subjective and I'll ignore. But it is educational, it links to alternatives to 37 signals products.

I can't really think of anything 37signals has done to warrant this

The company and its reputation was built on aggressively bad-mouthing and trash-talking anyone and everyone they could. Remember when rails started out? Anyone who dared to like something other than their framework was an idiot (at best).

Why are you bragging about making a bunch of uninformed, knee-jerk assumptions about someone you know nothing about? And why is this trash the top comment? Whether or not $20/month is too much does not depend on whether you have $20 to spend or not, it depends on the value you get from that $20. Products with very little value, and which have $0 alternatives that provide more value are not worth $20.

The general consensus is that they do both

Your claim is just as baseless as the one you are responding to, which was pointing out how baseless the original claim "they make good software" was.

not many unsatisfied customers in their forums.

They heavily censor their forums. I know lots of former customers of theirs who were more than just unsatisfied with them.

I think it's because there are lots of PHP programmers who don't have the first clue about setting up an actual server on the internet (and keeping it up).

Well PHP programmers are going to want to use PHP anyways. But as far as users not knowing how to setup a server, that's true. But it is also irrelevant. Tons of people provide tons of different VM images for all sorts of things, node included. At that point it is no harder than PHP, with the added benefit of not needing to upgrade PHP every 2 weeks for the latest round of security holes.

I don't understand why that is still something people care about in the days of $5 VPS hosting.

That's an arbitrary and useless guideline, using made up numbers. If losing 1% of your potential users costs $100k in lost sales a year, and 20% of my time costs $20k, then spending that 20% time seems like a pretty good idea.

Walter is saying you can't have good error messages without semicolons

That is what he said though. I understand it is one example for a larger point, but it is an example that doesn't support that point at all. It is pretty hard to judge the overall point when the example is nonsense.

I think this shows that Walter has lots of compiler experience, not so much lots of language design experience. You can't get good error messages without semicolons? How can anyone say something that absurd in a serious article? Have you tried a language without them? It works just fine.

Minimizing keywords is important not because of a word shortage, but because of an overlap with words the programmer wants to use. It is obvious that if you make "i" a keyword, someone will likely murder you. But there's tons of grey area where you might be stepping on toes and getting in the way, so minimizing the amount of toe stepping is good. Especially since there is absolutely no reason to have lots of keywords.

Well one other difference is that D is a systems language, and Go is nothing even remotely close to a systems language but initially claimed to be one. There is not much demand for a new systems language, most people are happy to use higher level languages for what they do these days. Most go converts are coming from python and ruby, not C++.

Your own examples contradict your hypothesis. Ruby is a generic scripting language, it is not better or worse than python or perl at anything. Rails made ruby popular due to evangelism, not solving a problem others do not (notice how rails was literally just a crappier django?).

"Being portable assembler" is not solving one problem at all, it is one of the most general things you could cite. That literally is being a better language.

Java took millions of dollars of marketing to make it popular, people didn't just suddenly flock to it because it was C with garbage collection (which was already a solved problem: see C).

Perhaps lisp "never took off" (seems like it took off pretty well to me) because it isn't the greatest language ever? Lisp barely is a language, it is more of a toolkit to build a language with.

Useful tab completion, more useful commands, catching Ctrl+C like a shell is supposed to do instead of exiting like an asshole, etc. Can you give an example of your opposite experience? I've literally never met someone who has used both and not preferred psql before.

As JavaScript is basically a required feature on the web these days, who cares?

People who don't live in a fantasy bubble world where that is true? "Hey, just throw away 1% of your potential user base for no reason" isn't a very compelling sales pitch.

The problem with that is confusing users. When you have a "login with firefox" option you will get "but I don't use firefox anymore, I switched to chrome".

It's just a heavily biased article is all

Yes, but as I said I don't see any indication that the bias is towards "enterprise" at all. Python's use in statistics and related fields is quite small compared to its competition in those areas, which don't even show up. So it seems very unreasonable to suggest that is what is giving python a hugely inflated figure just to maintain the notion that there is an "enterprise" bias.

Really a shame they used the mysql protocol. The mysql command line client is terrible compared to psql, and the mysql lib is much less pleasant to use than libpq.

What are you basing that on? They have python as #1 by a large margin, when literally every other language popularity measure has it somewhere down the list below java, C++, PHP, etc. If it were skewed towards "enterprise" users wouldn't we expect to see java, C# and C++ getting boosts rather than python?

Why is this here? Because MIT is ostensibly a tech school so it is "6 degrees" relevant? "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon"

Except that provides absolutely no evidence to support the hypothesis. People have variations in wrists and forearms too, it does not follow that some people are "morphologically incapable" of using a mouse for example.

What the hell are you talking about?

Exactly what I said. You can go read your post if you have forgotten its contents.

not end users who remain, for the most part, unaware of whatever issues may lie under the hood.

You are simply repeating yourself. Paul Phillips contradicts you, and I find him to be much more credible.

Other than Haskell, given the context of the thread, which language might you be referring to as the better alternative to Scala?

Ocaml, F#, SML and clean.

please name this better alternative that is presumably not Haskell.

Why would it not be haskell? Haskell is pretty obviously the best option.

1. The link you provided does not support your absurd claim in any way.

2. It is not a well written about issue at all. If it was you would show some support for it rather than try to deflect.

3. Of course not. But your claim is still absurd, being ignorant of this fact does not change it.

4. I have likely been programming in untyped languages longer than you have been alive. Your claim was not an opinion, you stated a (completely incorrect) factual thing. "I like untyped languages" is an opinion. "Dynamically typed languages let you do things that are impossible in statically typed languages" is a factual claim, one which is complete nonsense, and you have totally failed to support.

You made a completely baseless claim, and then when asked to support it said "no, you support my argument for me". That is what I said deserves to be downvoted to oblivion, not your original bullshit claim, which is just typical ignorance.

I have never seen a gentoo users with any more knowledge or experience than ubuntu, mint, mandrake, etc users. They are in fact almost exclusively people who used a "noob" distro, then switched to gentoo to feel "advanced" even though nobody with any unix knowledge would waste their time with gentoo.

No, specifically gentoo users can. The distro literally serves no real purpose, nobody with any unix experience would consider using it. It is quite literally the distro for people who don't know what they are doing, but want to feel "advanced" by watching stuff they don't understand scroll by.

DO is not an alternative to AWS, it is an alternative to EC2. If you want to tell people not to use AWS, you have to provide an alternative to AWS. Even google's AWS-like offering is missing tons of things lots of AWS customers rely on.

If they were using Arch or Gentoo at home,

If they are using gentoo, you should be finding someone else. Gentoo users are typically the most dangerous combination of profoundly ignorant, yet absurdly overconfident in their abilities. Seeing a bunch of autotools and gcc output scroll by does not teach you anything. But the mistaken reputation as an "advanced" distro makes people think that by using gentoo, they are therefore "advanced".

There's nothing wrong with language evangelism

He says, after suggesting you can't trust what someone says because they are an evangelist.

Kmett has, I believe, taken on a larger role in Haskell, perhaps officially with FP Complete

FP complete is an independent company and has no official involvement in GHC or any other haskell implementation. Edward is not involved with FP complete. Edward is involved in the haskell community and the scala community. In neither case is he anything like an evangelist (which would make no sense anyways, you can't convert the converted). It seems odd that you are so adamant about inventing a fictional promotional context for him after claiming there's nothing wrong with that.

Referring to a presentation by Paul Phillips, an absolute Scala giant, and equating that with what the average Scala programmer encounters in their daily work does not negate my argument...in the slightest.

Perhaps you should actually take the time to listen to it. A significant part of what he was saying was "this stuff matters". Just because the person doing the presentation knows scala very well, does not mean the problems he points out do not effect people who know scala less well.

When you leave Scala and remain on the JVM there is no better statically typed alternative, IMHO

I am not sure how that is relevant. I don't care about the JVM.

Just getting my feet wet, maybe I'll learn to love it, but for now, to get shit done in the real world, it's Scala and the JVM.

Or this. Do you remember the part where I tried to convince you to use haskell? Neither do I.