amazonslave

I think some people in this thread are saying there are 3 categories, not 2.

Every medicine/supplement/remedy makes 3 claims:

1. Features ('What' it is - ingredient identity, potency, purity, quality) 2. Advantages ('How' it works and how it is different - the 'mechanism of action') 3. Benefits ('Why' the consumer cares - pain avoiders and gain creators)

So, there are 3 distinct categories:

1. regulated Pharmaceuticals should have good evidence for Features, Advantages, and Benefits

2. Unregulated 'Nutraceuticals/dietary supplements' often have good evidence for Features and Advantages, that is they have SOME mechanism of action that does something, but sometimes they fail to deliver on Benefits (especially big marketing claims).

3. Homeopathic remedies and similar do not deliver on Advantages or Benefits. Sometimes they don't even deliver on Features (they have different ingredients than what they claim). These do not have a mechanism of action that makes any sense whatsoever. You couldn't even run a good Randomized double blind placebo controlled study if you wanted to because the proposed mechanism makes almost zero sense.

'pharmaceuticals' and 'nutraceuticals/dietary supplements' can both have legitimate mechanism of actions for them with good studies. Fish oil, Creatine, Protein Powder, and similar supplements all have very well-studied mechanisms of action (Advantages) for the benefits they provide.

I understand that there are tons of scammy supplements, but they need to be treated differently than homeopathic remedies by consumers. One should be taken seriously, but treated skeptically, and the other should be dismissed from first principles.

No, I did read what you typed. You are confusing terms and honestly most people do it (which was the point of my post).

This Witch Hazel product at CVS is not homeopathic.[1] This is a normal Witch Hazel supplement that is pure distilled Witch Hazel. This is not homeopathic.

Most people think 'homeopathic' just means 'natural supplements/alternative medicines'.

That IS NOT what it is. Homeopathy is a specific 'ritual' that is done where the compound that 'causes illness' is diluted many, many, many times until there is effectively none of it left in the bottle. It is psuedoscience AND IT IS NOT NATURAL MEDICINE. [2]

It matters to understand this, because the homeopathic industry obviously uses this confusion to their advantage.

[1] https://www.cvs.com/shop/t-n-dickinson-s-witch-hazel-all-nat...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

I think you may be confusing naturopathic with homeopathic.

Naturopathic medicine use natureceuticals/supplements all the time. These contain active ingredients in usable dosages that have research about their mechanism of actions and many of them work quite well. (Witch Hazel may be one! Vitamins and minerals are also common. Fish oil too.)

Homeopathy is a specific belief in homeopathic remedies, which as described in the article are pretty thoroughly debunked pseudoscience. They dilute things down, but the effects are no different than placebo.

In my opinion, this is a really unfortunate confusion that a lot of people have. Natural supplements are useful, and when they are proven useful, they often get turned into regulated medicines! However, homeopathic remedies are entirely different and get to 'free-ride' on the confusion created in the alternative health industry.

I find your opinion here fascinating and value your perspective! It's neat to debate which kind of 'scam' is worse. Every value proposition for health supplements/medicine has 3 parts: 1. Features (what it is: ingredient, quality, purity, potency etc) 2. Advantages (how does its mechanism of action work and how is it unique/better than alternatives) 3. Benefits (why does the consumer care because it relieves pains or acquires gains)

I agree with you that 'scams' that target the Features (like the fake/counterfeit generics example) are terrible and we should aggressively go after this type of scam. However, had those Features been real, the Advantages and Benefits of those generics probably had good evidence/support. Just because you got fake pills, doesn't mean that the real ones don't work well.

But Homeopathic medicines ALWAYS have Advantages and Benefits problems. Even if the Features are okay, and you get exactly what you expected, the mechanism of action will never work and you will never get the benefits more than a placebo. If any marketing convinces you otherwise (like the label or having shelf space at CVS in the 'eye care' aisle), then you are a victim of another type of 'scam'. Homeopathic products, as far as an rigorous research is concerned, always have Advantages/Benefits problems.

On one hand, regulating Features is maybe easier for a government to do and that is an argument for limiting the scope to Features issues. However, the health and monetary costs of products with fake Advantages/Benefits is undoubtedly many years of life and billions of dollars, so there will be pressure to regulate. (maybe you disagree with the costs/externalities here)

It's definitely an interesting discussion. Hopefully smart people are working on getting real data about the pros and cons!