Ask HN: going to USA

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=979549

by mfalcon • 17 years ago

26 38 17 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I'm from Argentina and the next year I'll have some free time that I would like to spend going to USA. My idea is to stay there for about 1-3 months. The reasons are: -For fun. -Know about a different culture. -Improve my english skills. -Meet interesting people.

But going there isn't cheap because our currency is devaluated and $4(four pesos) = u$s1(one dollar). So in order to go there, I'll have to work at some place.

I would like to know if there are some companies/startups that hires people like me to work temporarily. I'm a beginner Python/Django programmer and studying Engineering Systems(4th year).

There are programs that make something like this, but I don't like the jobs that they offer to do.

So I ask you guys if this is possible or if I'm crazy.

Thanks a lot, Mariano.

patio11• 17 years ago

Mariano, unless you have left out important information such as "Although I grew up in Argentina I am a U.S. citizen by virtue of being born in the United States", you lack legal permission to work in the United States unless you get a visa which permits it prior to arriving in the US. I'll just give it to you straight: it is not likely that you will be able to do this in anything like the timeline you are currently planning.

Without legal permission to work in the U.S., you will find it extraordinarily difficult to find reputable employment.

I would counsel against illegal employment -- when I was young and stupid I worked on a cash basis for a man who "didn't want none of that OSHA paperwork nonsense", and I was forced to quit the job after he threw a 20 lb. pipe at my head. (Cleaning oil pipeline components with a toothbrush is, by the way, every bit as fun as it sounds.)

electromagnetic• 17 years ago

I'd also like to add, that if you're caught working illegally, you'll never get into the US again. So if you ever plan on living in the country, you're better off not ruining your chances.

sounddust• 17 years ago

Also should be worth mentioning that Argentina is not part of the visa waiver program. That means that if you want to come to the US for 1-3 months, you'll have to apply for a visa, and immigration authorities will almost certainly want proof that you will have enough money to live as a tourist in the USA for that period of time. So you need to make sure to have the money in advance and be able to prove it. It would be unfortunate if you spent money on a plane ticket to the US only to get turned down and forced to return immediately.

Have you considered applying for a "study abroad" program in the US? If you get accepted, then you will be able to work limited hours on-campus (and potentially off-campus as part of your studies).

pibefision2• 17 years ago

Also, inmigration authorities could get this thread and negate/cancel your visa for ever.

mfalcon2• 17 years ago

You're right, all my life I followed the legal path and I have the intention to keep on it :).

mfalcon2• 17 years ago

Thank you for your response. I forgot to mention this important issue. I'm an Italian citizen too, this could help me or it's the same as being an Argentine citizen?. All legal, there's no question about it.

So this means that if in the future I apply for Ycombinator and the application is accepted, I won't be able to participate because of the visa issues.

Kaizyn• 17 years ago

If you're an Italian citizen, you might consider going to live/work in Italy instead of the US. By right of citizen, you already would be legally allowed to work in that country. Also, the Italian citizenship may entitle you to work anywhere else in the EU you wish to go. While not the same as the US, you'd get nearly all the other benefits you had hoped for.

hussong2• 17 years ago

As an Italian citizen, you'll be able to enter the US under the WVP. You won't be authorized to work though. Taking part in YC under the WVP is possible.

jeromec• 17 years ago

Regarging the ability of foreigners to participate in YC, this is addressed in the FAQs here: http://ycombinator.com/faq.html

From my understanding you could do it, because foreigners are allowed to own or start U.S. corporations. I'm not sure how much work on the project you would have to do at home versus here, though.

Slashed• 17 years ago

The same issue bothers me as well. I don't need visa to visit the states as a tourist(I need one to work there though). What if my startup will be accepted at YCombinator, will I be able to go there and work on my startup without work permit?

eru2• 17 years ago

Probably not. Though I am not a lawyer.

kapauldo• 17 years ago

Mariano -

Get your papers in order, get on a plane and come. Nevermind the naysayers, just do it. There are 2 kinds of people in the world- talkers and doers. Be a doer! Best of luck, I applaud your ambition.

mrkurt• 17 years ago

If you don't have the money, "doers" isn't really an option.

hussong2• 17 years ago

I'd add: Get a credit card or two.

oscardelben2• 17 years ago

When I come to the US, they asked me a lot of question if I was there for work, and they probably wouldn't let me stay without a credit card.

pibefision2• 17 years ago

This is insane, this is not an attitud question. Working ilegally in US it's a very bad idea.

perokreco4• 17 years ago

I completely agree. The fact that you are a doer, does not imply that what are you doing is beneficial to you.

rgrieselhuber• 17 years ago

Mariano - email me at ray@firewatchingmedia.com. If you're going to San Diego, I know of one Argentinian company with offices there so it might be a good way to get in.

Edit: Also, if you're just going to be there for a few months, check out CouchSurfing. I've made friends with people from dozens of countries there and it's a great way to travel.

perokreco4• 17 years ago

I suggest you try couchsurfing. It will enable you to accomplish all your goals:. -Know about a different culture. -Improve my english skills. -Meet interesting people. at a much lower cost as you wouldn't have to pay hotels/hostels.

joubert3• 17 years ago

Unless you have a work permit, the only way you could "work" would be if you come in on a B1/B2 visa for "business meetings".

But you couldn't get paid by a US office - it would have to be your Argentinian employer paying you and in their interest to have you here for business meetings (of course the US office could reimburse the foreign office for expenses, but now your salary) - that effectively means you will need to interact with a US office of the company you work for in Argentina (or an associated firm, e.g. in the case of the Big Four).

If you come for "business meetings" you should be ready to demonstrate such.

seshagiric• 17 years ago

B1 visa = you cannot earn any money. Business men should show proof of finances to cover their expenses. Employees should show proof of employer paying allowance (not salary).

B2 visa = tourism or family visit.

The only way you could earn money legally is to get a H1 visa or come as a temporary work force (can't remember the visa name).

osu3• 17 years ago

how does this mesh with paying individuals (who do not hold us work permits) while they are situated outside of the united states? i'm think in particular of small outsourced software development projects.

joubert3• 17 years ago

Read the bit about B1 on this page: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1262.html

freddythefoo• 17 years ago

Look, there's a gray area here that everyone drives a truck through. Foreigners are able to start companies in America, just not be employed or get paid. Ever wonder why immigrants have small businesses like grocery stores? Because you can buy a store as a foreigner, you can operate it, and you can keep the profits. You just can't be an employee and get paid. Got it?

It's also legal to have a business in Argentina, be an employee of that company, and come to the US to do consulting. I've never figured out exactly how legal it is, but the fact that so many companies, large and small, do this means if it's illegal it must not be very illegal. Every country allows employees to come in and do some work on tourist visas, otherwise each economy would freeze up.

For example, I was a software guy working on a hardware device being produced in China. I ended up going over and spending a week doing integration. On a tourist visa. I was working the entire time, as did all the taiwanese who came over to work with me. There was never a question of anyone getting work visas. I suspect that what we all did was illegal, but it's a gray area and I'm not a lawyer.

The dodge there is we were working for our individual companies, in china, instead of working directly for a chinese company. I've never seen a law that specifies the amount of work where "contracting in country" turns into "employed in country". Not that I know. There's a practical limit, in that at some point an official notices and you get in hot water. I suppose. China's a big country and there are only so many officials. I've done that kind of thing for weeks at a time; no one ever notices at that length.

Couch surfing can be rather pleasant. I've got an empty in-law apartment and a pile of code to write, but I'm writing code this month and next, and don't know if that'll be true past then. You will meet people, you'll learn things. You'll be paid in pizza, red bull, and experience.

If you have a friend with an Argentine-based consulting company, or you can find an Argentine-based consulting company, and say you'll drum up the business when you're in the US but you'll need them to get paid, they'd probably shrug and say "sure", although they'll want to keep part of your paycheck.

Regarding whether you can be part of YC, you should be able to start a company, pick up YC funding, and pay yourself out of the YC funding with a tourist visa. Establishing a corporation provides added ammunition in case you go in front of a judge, where claiming a sole proprietorship looks more like a visa dodge.

What you'll start realizing as you grow older is there's a difference between "management" and "workers". Management gets exceptions. Workers get the shaft. Management is invited across borders, workers are stopped and searched. The largest difference between management and workers is what you call yourself, and how you present yourself.

That's the filter they'll apply to get your US visa in the first place. You have to show enough money to support yourself for the time you'll be here. That's about the same as asking if you're "management" or a "worker".

Sounds annoying to me - if you've got an EU passport, why not just go to the EU? The exchange rate is worse is all. I might recommend Portugal. The country is very polyglot (I was in an office there doing integration and everyone switched to English for me, and they had some UK people in) and there's a number of tech businesses in Lisbon.

Do travel with one nice sports coat and a pair of good shoes, and smile a lot.

gorbachev• 17 years ago

As others have already mentioned, you can't legally do anything considered as work in the United States without a work permit.

If you still want to do it (illegally), which I would strongly recommend against, no legit company will ever hire you, because you will not be able to show the requirement documentation to prove that you're legally allowed to work in the United States. In order for you to get around that hurdle, you'd have to acquire the documents illegally. Or work for a company that hires illegal immigrants.

It's a very bad idea.

Ask HN: going to USA

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