So I finally tried Wave...

http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2009/11/so-i-finally-tried-wave.html

by mrduncan • 17 years ago

120 36 17 years ago

paulbuchheit.blogspot.com

riffer• 17 years ago

I love this guy:

If you want to learn more about Wave, I would start there and skip this post

His point that the product must be in a very early stage of development because it apparently hasn't gone though the process where marginal features are winnowed is fantastic orthogonal thinking.

wtallis3• 17 years ago

It's also surprising when you realize how rarely that assumption holds true. Far too many applications ship several versions without ever getting rid of the features that should never have been there in the first place. It's a testament to Google's reputation for quality (and long betas) that we feel we can safely assume that the marginal features will be removed or improved in a timely fashion.

johns• 17 years ago

Is there some history of this actually happening at Google? I can't recall any big products that have shed features. My recollection is obviously limited, but I'd love to hear of some examples. Shuttering whole products/services doesn't count to me.

amichail• 17 years ago

I'm not sure if this is because I have an obligation to try all new products, or because my views on the longevity of email will seem hopelessly naive once I try Wave, but either way, I mustn't disappoint the good people of TechCrunch :)

I think what's implied is much worse than that actually... namely that Paul would rather not have Google Wave eclipse GMail. And for that reason, he didn't even want to look at it.

diN0bot3• 17 years ago

yeah....he's just a nice guy and doesn't want to pick meaningless battles.

NathanKP3• 17 years ago

I don't think that Google Wave will replace GMail for a while.

For on thing, it contradicts the theory of "do the simplest thing that possibly works." Google Wave is great for collaboration and group work and game playing. However, when it comes to replacing email it is too bloated I think. Of course they will probably speed it up and simplify as it develops.

Also there will always be a market for a simple email client, if only for the simple reason that not everyone wants the entire world to see that they can't type very well.

It is more professional to send a completed email then to have the recipient see you typing in realtime complete with misspellings, clumsy typing, and grammar errors.

That is the main impression that I have with Google Wave. Everyone watching a wave can see me type so I have to be more careful rather than just typing then looking it over before hitting "Reply".

ThinkWriteMute• 17 years ago

The "see me type" thing is a feature you can turn off.

Andys• 17 years ago

I don't understand why someone would care about whether one program (wave) eclipses another program (gmail)?

wtallis3• 17 years ago

He wrote GMail. It's very common for humans to have a strong enough emotional investment and attachment to the fruits of their labor that they act irrationally in manners involving that creation. Seeing GMail get abandoned by users would be psychologically very similar to (though probably far less severe than) the pain of seeing your child spurned by his peers.

bumblebird4• 17 years ago

I don't think there's any chance of that. I've been the same about wave - it doesn't look that interesting enough to bother trying it out. Email, IM, twitter, etc is quite enough, and solves the main use cases very well.

Wave is a specific niche of communication, and that's why it'll never eclipse the above methods.

Locke16892• 17 years ago

I'm a little confused about his description of linear vs nonlinear. Maybe it's because I haven't tried Wave yet.

P.S. If anyone has any invites available, my email is in my profile ;)

sharksandwich• 17 years ago

Sent you one. I have a few more if anyone else wants one - send me an email

diN0bot3• 17 years ago

btw - i think you won't receive the invite until the next "wave" of users. i'm guessing they're staggering users with product iteration.

almost everyone i talk to says: this is cool, but none of my friends are on it. maybe google is addressing this with different circles of folks, but from where i'm standing it seems like they could have forced a better distribution of invites.

alex_c• 17 years ago

Cheers - got it :)

Locke16892• 17 years ago

Thanks, got it too!

bbgm• 17 years ago

That's the part that resonated with me. Am working with a couple of people on a document and that very "feature" drives me nuts and makes it difficult to keep track of where responses might have been made in the context of a wave. You could put that last response on top, but that spoils the continuity of the document and treating it like Word tracks changes doesn't work either

wtallis3• 17 years ago

Wave seems to afford multiple interaction conventions, but unlike with email (where we know the pros and cons of top-posting, for example), it isn't obvious what way works best, and for what situations. It seems unlikely that we'll know anytime soon, either, given that Wave is meant to encompass a wider range of tasks than any of the systems is is typically compared with. Right now, we have the conventions of the linear or hierarchical conversations used by email and web forums, and we have the conventions of the collaboratively annotated and edited documents, but we don't know which to use in the gray areas, because that decision has previously been made by the choice of program. It feels to me like we're driving cars prior to the invention of turn signals, brake lights, stop signs, and demarcated lanes. We have to use trial and error to evolve the rules of the road.

diN0bot3• 17 years ago

nice response. i didn't realize there were bloggers out there who could be calm and informative.

mark_l_watson• 17 years ago

I like his response.

re: Wave itself: I am more enthusiastic about Wave as a platform (custom robots for back end processing, gadgets) for software development.

mojuba• 17 years ago

My impression from Wave was the same: the hierarchical structure turns "waves" into an unmaintainable mess too easily and too quickly. I find the user interface a bit counter-intuitive and cluttered too.

Whatever Paul feels about Wave, he actually makes a couple of clever suggestions Wave's team, I think, should listen to: make it (optionally?) linear and also build the wave-to-email gate. These two things are more important for Wave at the moment than anything else.

If Paul built Wave it'd probably be in a more usable state now, wouldn't it?

andreyf• 17 years ago

Most insightful and original bit is at the end: I don't know what Google has planned for Wave or Gmail, but if I were them I would continue improving Wave, and then once it's ready for the whole world to use, integrate it into Gmail. Moving Wave into Gmail would give it a huge userbase, and partially address the "email is universal" problem. They could use MIME multi-part to send both a non-Wave, HTML version of the message, and the Wave version. Wave-enabled mail readers would display the live Wave, while older mailers would show the static version along with a link to the live Wave.

tumult• 17 years ago

That's not insightful. You can't use Wave like that. It's technically an impossibility. Guy has no clue what he's talking about, just like every other armchair reviewer of Wave.

fjabre• 17 years ago

Definitely not a ringing endorsement..

I do like his idea at the end but I think it would make more sense for Gmail to be integrated into Wave instead of vice-versa.. Integrating back into Gmail seems awkward at best..

So I finally tried Wave...

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