Ask HN: How much are full stack developers worth?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9621528

by x0ry • 11 years ago

14 15 11 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

15+ years writing software, web, and database code. Am I doing OK with 80k/year + basic benefits living in TN? The Robert Half report reads 140k but my employer is denying it. I made it to the last round of Triplebyte but didnt' make the 1st cut. I'm currently replacing an application a well known company has vested millions in. Should I be asking for more? I'm just not sure how many solutions need to be built before I draw a line in the sand. My skill sets include C#, Javascript, PowerShell, AngularJS, ASP.NET, HTML, CSS, MS-SQL 2008, IIS, Linux, Apache, mySQL, PHP, etc.

EDIT: Loving the feedback, thank you all! For clarification, the market is Cool Springs/Brentwood area about 10-20 minutes outside of Nashville.

walterclifford• 11 years ago

15+ years writing software, web, and database code. Am I doing OK with 80k/year

That's about what I was making with less than two years experience at an extremely small non-profit with a very limited budget as their full stack developer - so yeah I think it's safe to say you should/could be getting more.

[N.B. this is in Boston which probably has a higher cost of living / average wage...but still nuts someone with your background/experience is making what I was at the non-profit]

hkarthik2• 11 years ago

To someone living on one of the coasts, it seems absurdly low. But it's all relative to the cost of living.

Here's what a house in Chattanooga, TN costs:

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6063-Heritage-Ridge-Dr-Hix...

pdiddy• 11 years ago

I think the OP's salary adjusted from the cost of living in Nashville to Boston would be roughly $115k.

hkarthik2• 11 years ago

Absolute numbers really mean nothing in determining if you are being paid what you are worth. Just like in real estate, location is everything.

The best metric is to determine the high water mark for being considered "well paid" given the cost of living where you live, and then adjusting your expectations around that.

Software developers in most US metros are usually paid well above the median income in their area. If you aren't making that much, you have two options:

1) Move to a different area where average developers salaries exceed median income levels.

2) Work remotely for a company in such areas, where even a discounted salary for their market puts you above the median where you currently live.

My take on the salary that you've stated is that it feels low if it's in Nashville or Chattanooga, but it might be high if you're living in Johnson City. This is totally subjective based on TN developers that I've worked with in the past.

x0ry6• 11 years ago

I hadn't thought to pull that, thank you. The median income is around $79,894.

goo• 11 years ago

You could make more -- how much you make depends on what the market will bear, and the more sales savvy you have, the higher price you'll get for your product (you!).

The only way to know how much more you could make is to find out -- salary markets vary substantially between regions, so a developer making 140k in the bay area may struggle to find a job paying more than 80k in TN.

Salaries are a result of a negotiation with the organization at hand, and one of the key elements to a successful negotiation is to be both providing more value than you cost to that organization, and to have the ability to walk away from the table. Your best alternative, which gives you that power, is the most important element of a negotiation. Read up on BATNA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiate...

Also keep _their_ BATNA in mind -- if they don't have anyone who can replace you, and it's making a bunch of money, then they have a poor position to negotiate from, and you can get more from them.

x0ry6• 11 years ago

This points out one of the hardest challenges for me. I'm not a great sales person / negotiator. I'm a geek. When I clock out, I go home and do this same stuff for fun. Managers can see right through this and use it as leverage. Add to the fact I don't have a college degree, and the rest is history. There's a tricky balance between confidence and arrogance and I think its an area I need to improve.

vogt• 11 years ago

While all of the points being made here about cost of living in TN versus the Bay Area etc are accurate, 80 is still a low salary for the area for your experience and skillset. Taking your post at face value, anyway.

In Texas, which is pretty comparable to Tennessee COL wise, you would likely fetch around 110-120, if not more.

x0ry6• 11 years ago

Everything's bigger in Texas right? :) I'll keep them in mind for remote work.

fsk• 11 years ago

Question #1:

Do you like your current job? If it's a nice environment, you might regret finding another job where you get paid 30% more but it's a lot more unpleasant.

Even if you interview and get a good vibe, bad things can happen. Your boss can quit or be fired 3 months after you start (happened to me). Your actual boss might not be who you thought it was when you were interviewing (also happened to me). But the same bad things could also happen in your current job.

Assuming the answer to #1 is "meh" or "sort of" or "I want to leave":

Question #2: Are you able to interview and get an offer for more somewhere else?

If you can't get more somewhere else, then you aren't underpaid.

If you can get more somewhere else, and you think it's time to move on, then go.

Also, don't compare TN salaries to California or NY or Boston salaries. As other people said, you need to adjust for cost of living.

Also, if you do get an offer you want to take, go, don't take a counter-offer. If your employer wants to pay you more, then they should do it now.

x0ry6• 11 years ago

#1 - Yes. My major complaint: I have a non technical manager who sets unreasonable timelines.

#2 - I think so, wish me luck... :)

alain94040• 11 years ago

Take a look at AngelList's job listings, they have the benefit of showing a range that is representative of the first tier of tech jobs.

For Nashville, I only one job (Android dev) with range 50-90k. But for Chattanooga, I see several jobs that range 60-100k.

With 15 years of experience, you should be able to qualify for the high-end of those ranges. Based on this data, it appears that 80k is not hugely underpaid. You could make a bit more.

x0ry6• 11 years ago

Nice resource. I found a creative technologist position available for 110k + 4.25% equity at one of the local start ups. Thank you!

nphyte• 11 years ago

On a completely different note. Could you share your TripleByte experience here? Thanks

x0ry6• 11 years ago

I took the multiple choice coding test and passed! They then scheduled me a phone interview with Ammon Bartram. Here I got to share some of the projects I've worked on and he tested my proficiency with some general open ended questions. After we chat, I felt pretty good about the 3rd and final screen sharing interview. I was wrong. My environment was setup, and we jumped right into the challenges over Google Hangouts. There were 3 of them, the one I chose to complete in C# was printing a spiral shape of N length to stdout. This seemed pretty easy at first, but proved to be a bit more difficult. (Involves recursion over a 2-dimensional array.) I finished the task, just not within our 45 minute window. Ammon also stumped me on some very fundamental aspects of C# which I believe ultimately led to their decision. Lesson learned: You might know how to piece together a perfectly good application using resources on stack overflow but that doesn't make you elite. The more proficient you are in speaking to memory management within your applications, the better. Definitely an awesome experience and something I will be trying again in the future.

Ask HN: How much are full stack developers worth?

Related Stories