Ask HN: My CTO just left me 2 angry voicemails...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=937426

by zz1senk • 17 years ago

9 12 17 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I recently joined a startup in San Francisco about 3 months ago. We launched our product and it has been a great success (many customers, a lot of buzz, tons of traffic).

Before the launch, I was working until midnight everyday, 6 days a week. After the launch, my CTO was so happy with the work I did that the founders tripled my stock.

Today, I screwed up and left my phone at home while I went out for dinner. We had some work that needed to be done, but I thought it wasn't due until the morning (miscommunication on my part). When I got home, I had a couple of missed calls and two really angry voicemails.

My CTO told me he had expected me to finish my work earlier and that I was irresponsible. He pretty much yelled at me and had a few cuss words to throw in.

I called him back and apologized. (wtf? Why'd I do that?)

I can't believe how intense startups are.

Since I've been here there have been 2 people that were fired. I'm actually scared that I'll be fired when I walk in tomorrow morning. But at the same time, I don't need this job. I have enough savings to cover rent and living expenses until I find a new one.

I can't sleep right now, I've talked to my wife and she thinks I should quit. What do you guys think? Are startups ALWAYS this intense? Are the successful guys the ones who stick through it no matter what?

Thanks - Anonymous

phugoid• 17 years ago

Anyone who would fire you for this is not worth working for.

charlesmarshall• 17 years ago

Startups that have recently launched and are dependent on a single product for income are going to be very intense around deadlines. If you're currently the sole / lead dev I doubt you have much to worry about. You are worth more to them than running a few hours late.

Let your cto cool off and theres no harm, then no foul.

If it's a good, popular, product then it is worth sticking with it, but of course your health should come first. Burn out over a job you don't need is not a good idea. Just try to balance things, set sensible deadlines etc so 13hr days are a rarity not the norm.

Edited for conciseness

SwellJoe• 17 years ago

No, startups are not "ALWAYS" anything; there is a wide variety of people involved in startups. Startup founders, often very successful ones, can be polite and generous people. Most people do have flaws of some sort, and sometimes there will be people who have flaws that are distinctly incompatible with your own flaws.

If you aren't comfortable with the working environment, you should quit; the world is too wide and life too short to do otherwise. You might prefer to line something else up first, if you're unsure of your prospects or don't have sizable savings.

It may just be that you're taking it too seriously. If you have owned up to your mistake, done what you can to reduce its impact to the rest of the team, and apologized, you should let yourself move on. If your boss doesn't see it that way, he's an asshole, and probably isn't worth working for.

Also, if he's being such an asshole that he's chasing off and firing people at an alarming rate, the finances of the company may be dramatically worse than you are aware of and he's deluding himself and others into thinking he's being proactive, when really he's just unable to admit that his company is going down the toilet and he should own up to those problems. Actually, I can't think of any instance where a founder was being truly a dick where it didn't boil down to things going really badly and the founder not knowing how to cope with the failure. (I'm sure there have been many...people are sometimes just dicks. But, I can't think of any examples right now, but I can think of several examples of poor financial situation leading to emotional falling outs among founders and employees.)

ErrantX• 17 years ago

Your post reads to me like your trying to convince yourself to quit.

I wouldnt want to say either way; except to point out that if your working that hard for a company (startup or not) it's got to be one you really connect with. As soon as it starts to become a chore it's pointless.

So you screwed up: if the CTO is blowing his top that quickly (assuming it wasn't mission critical updates etc) then to me that smells instantly like he is either stressed (in which case you might like to sit down with him and ask outright if there is issues and whether you can help) or looking for an excuse to fire you.

jacquesm• 17 years ago

Is your stock solid ? In other words has it vested ?

If it is walk. If it isn't you'll have to wonder if they don't fire you whether or not the chances of you sitting it out until your stock does vest are > 50%.

It sounds like your CTO is not made of start-up material, and ought to be replaced, but then again we only have your side of the story so that's with the caveat that the other side might have a completely different one.

People skills are asset #1 in a start-up and your CTO is displaying none of it or is stressed out to the point of breaking.

It definitely sounds like a company with a very sick culture.

zedshaw• 17 years ago

I was in the Army for four years, and when I finally got out I promised myself three things:

1) I would never run again unless I was being chased by something that could kill me.

2) I would never again train to kill another person.

3) No man would ever, ever, yell at me. Ever.

To this day, #3 has been the best thing I've ever decided.

michael_dorfman• 17 years ago

Sorry, I hate to be that guy, but....wtf?

My CTO told me he had expected me to finish my work earlier and that I was irresponsible. He pretty much yelled at me and had a few cuss words to throw in.

You were in a high pressure situation, you fucked up, and you got "pretty much" yelled at. What did you expect? A pat on the back? The CTO was factually correct: you were irresponsible.

Put yourself in his shoes: work that needed to be done wasn't done at the time it should have been (due to your mistake), and he had no way to get in touch with you (due to your leaving your mobile at home while you went out for dinner.)

Believe it or not, what you do matters. If you fuck up, there are going to be consequences for the company, and the people who have their lives invested in the company aren't going to be particularly happy about it.

In conclusion, I'd say: your instinct was absolutely correct when you called him back to apologize. You fucked up, you got yelled at. Sharpen up, and try not to do it again.

shpxnvz• 17 years ago

And at point, most of us who manage people and have some self control would realize that yelling and cussing on a phone message would do nothing to resolve the problem quicker, and start thinking about how to fix the problem with the resources available at the time.

There is always plenty of time after the disaster/problem/inconvenience is averted, when the pressure is reduced, to address the mistakes an employee made.

pclark• 17 years ago

whats the big deal? you messed up and the CTO was pissed. we all make mistakes.

spokey2• 17 years ago

It's hard to get a complete picture of the situation from this little vignette, but your wife might be on to something.

There's a difference between "intense" and "toxic". Firing 2 people in 3 months may be a sign of a toxic environment. Leaving _two_ yelling, swearing voice-mails may be another. It's OK to be upset about missed deadlines or unmet responsibilities. It's not really OK to yell and curse at your staff because of it. Part of being a professional (part of being an adult for that matter) is being able to act in a manner that is different than how you feel. Verbally abusing the people you work with isn't "intense", it's at best rude, and shouldn't be accepted as par for the course.

I'm not saying the CTO is necessarily a bad guy because of this. We all lose control of our emotions at times. But let's be clear, this really isn't acceptable workplace behavior, startup or not. If it happens often, I'd take that as a very bad sign.

And this is more than a question of a toxic work environment (although frankly that may be reason enough to quit). It's really a matter of the success of the business. If the founders/management team aren't able to act professionally with their staff, how will they handle disappointment with investors, clients, partners? It is likely that if this is a problem it will manifest itself in more places than staff relationships.

(BTW, Do you have "stock" or "stock options"? Has your stock vested? If options, how likely are they to turn into anything real? If you've got a real stake in the business, that's great, but otherwise working 14+ hour days 6 days a week on a regular basis might also be a bad sign. I've witnessed this more than once with people I know: the founders don't offer early, key employees any significant stake in the business but still expect them to have 18-hours-a-day, 6-days-a-week dedication and drive because, you know, "it's a startup". Founders: If you're not giving your staff a vested interest in the business, don't expect them to be as engaged as you are. It's just not rational)

WalkingDead• 17 years ago

There is also the other side of the story. Read a few stories on Steve Jobs (just google) and how he behaves with Apple Engineers and Designers (hint: worse than what one guesses) and how they ultimately turn that in into profit (better product).

spokey2• 17 years ago

I hope you're not asserting that Apple makes a better product _because_ Steve Jobs is a jerk to his staff. I'm a strong believer (based on experience) that you'll get more out of people if you treat them with respect. Have high standards, yes, but don't be a jerk.

Ask HN: My CTO just left me 2 angry voicemails...

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