Ask HN: Speedreading - myth vs reality? your thoughts.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=929322

by justlearning • 17 years ago

27 24 17 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Curious about speedreading - the myth vs reality (intrigued by http://www.readallday.org/ and http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/nyregion/12towns.html). I tried out the 'don't say the words in the mind while you read' tactic to try speedreading, but felt very artificial (as in concentrating more on saying blah blah in the mind while skimming the text)

Could you share your stories/tips about how soon do you finish a fiction/non-fiction book (non-tech). If you do speedread a fiction - can you recall it after a few days?

You Sir! - the voracious reader, I am asking you!<p>Mileage may vary for everyone, but any tips you picked up over the years?

I have of some who read a book every other day - I am not one of them. Sometimes a book takes a week and another one takes couple of months...There's so much to read and so little time.

Any stories/tips?

EDIT:

(thanks to @tokenadult) Speedreading has been discussed earlier (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=419795). That was enough to understand speedreading.

I am interested in tips/learning experiences from your reading/your reading style.

tokenadult• 17 years ago

Previous HN thread:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=419795

What I said then was that I read a lot of speed-reading books when I was in college. I was working my way through, living in my own rented place, so time was of the essence. But I eventually decided that a lot of speed-reading techniques are less useful than they appear. The most helpful book I discovered during that research phase was Reading for Power and Flexibility

http://www.amazon.com/Reading-Power-Flexibility-Sparks-Johns...

which was a refreshing change of emphasis from most other speed-reading books.

Good techniques I learned from various sources were pre-reading (for example, making sure to read the whole table of contents, the whole preface/introduction/foreword, and even the whole index before starting the book proper); focused vocabulary development targeting words with Latin and Greek roots used in the international scientific vocabulary; and daring not to read a whole book if reading one section of it would answer my question.

Good vocabulary development books are English Vocabulary Elements

http://www.amazon.com/English-Vocabulary-Elements-Keith-Denn...

and English Words from Latin and Greek Elements

http://www.amazon.com/English-Words-Latin-Greek-Elements/dp/...

Both of those books will help you to read faster by helping you recognize word meanings from word roots.

justlearning• 17 years ago

"Good techniques I learned from various sources were pre-reading..."

Thank you. These are the kind of notes I am looking for.

patio11• 17 years ago

Any stories/tips?

I've always read very fast and don't know any convenient way to describe to you how I do it. Sorry about that.

However, I had to be taught to read aloud fast, for competitive speaking purposes. I'm told by other people that did the same exercises that I did that their silent reading speed increased, as we were constantly pushing our speaking rates up and you have to read faster than you talk or bam problems. (Competitors in collegiate forensics often speak more than several hundred words per minute.)

The easiest way to acquire the ability to speak fast is to drill, drill, drill -- pick a newspaper and start talking, then go faster. The thing to keep in mind is that your eyes have to arrive at the word faster than your lips do. As you do that, you'll discover shortcuts which "work for you" (largely subconscious for me -- I know, because I've made mistakes in ambiguous sentences, that I must not actually be reading everything my brain processes as being there).

(Sidenote: if for some reason you need to be able to speak faster or with more confidence, I recommend shadowing a newscaster: just repeat what they say, as they say it. This is an exercise they teach simultaneous interpreters and it is much harder than you think it would be.)

netconnect• 17 years ago

I too have always been able to read at what other people think are very high speeds. It started when I was in 2nd grade. (talking Australian here, don't know if this is the same terminology for other countries) In grade two I could read at a grade 6 level, by year 7 I could read at a year 12 level. This is by no means some amazing feat, I'm certainly not special.

It was around grade 5 I realised that I could actually read much faster than my peers. It was silent reading hour and I finished my book in a few minutes, the teacher told me that I hadn't and to keep reading, the other kids called me a liar. It was a long hour as far as I was concerned being a little kid. After that I hid my speed reading and only ever used it to entertain myself. I would try to see how fast I could read the subtitles on the Japanese shows they played on SBS, or to knock off an entire book before my mum made me turn off my lights. When I practised by myself I usually did it out loud, trying not to slur my words, stuff like that. Once again this was just for my own amusement.

Reading out loud I am very fast, my sister is the only person I have ever met that can understand when I read a passage at full speed. Silently I read many times faster. I always hear people saying that cutting out the sub-vocalisation allows anyone to read at high speeds, but I still say the words in my head as I go.

I find I can read most fiction without having to slow down to enjoy it, as well as still comprehending and remembering all the plot details, character interactions and even the exact wording of dialogue from fairly far back in the text. I find it is not as useful for technical writings or anything involving stopping to understand math. Despite this it is still very useful for quickly finding passages or words in large chunks of text or reading through material that can be learned by rote.

All in all I treasure my little skill and would be very upset to lose it.

Locke16892• 17 years ago

I also say the words in my head, but not in their entirety, a lot of the time. However, my speed also varies greatly depending on what I'm reading. The Art can take me almost 10 minutes per page, while Harry Potter or some other fiction book clock in at 150-200 pages an hour.

Unlike you, I don't read aloud very fast. In fact, I'm usually pretty poor at reading aloud. At max speed, I read much, much faster than I could possibly speak and when reading aloud I often stumble over words because my mind is going on, but my mouth is still trying to say the third word behind.

To a certain extent I sometimes dislike reading very fast. My retention rate is the same either way but I will often finish good books too quickly for my liking. This may also be a reason why I am attracted to longer books -- they can provide more than an hour or so of reading time.

barmstrong• 17 years ago

I went through this book a few years back (Breakthrough Rapid reading by Peter Kump). I bought it for no other reason than it comes up first in Amazon when you search for "speed reading": http://www.amazon.com/Breakthrough-Rapid-Reading-Peter-Kump/...

My conclusion is that yes, speed reading works and it's real. The book takes you through various 15 min exercises, one per day for 30 days. At times these exercises are a real pain and I really hated doing it. Sometimes it feels like you are making no progress and not comprehending anything if the exercise makes you go faster than normal.

But at the end (and throughout) you can do a self test to see your improvement. The test also covers comprehension so you can verify you aren't just skimming. The improvement was dramatic. I ended up reading twice as fast by the end with no loss in comprehension.

I still use a lot of the techniques today to reinforce it, although if I'm reading for pleasure I don't usually use the techniques (but still read faster).

One downside to it that I've noticed is that I'm much worse at catching typos in things I write now. Since my eye is not focusing on each word when I read I have to really force myself to slow down if I'm reading to proof something instead of comprehension.

Here is something I wrote on it a while back: http://www.startbreakingfree.com/77/business-education-part-...

Some of the claims about reading a book a day are marketing hype. So don't expect miracles. But in general yes I'm convinced it works. I definitely read faster now, and it's probably worth the investment of a month to learn it to get the return in productivity.

Retric• 17 years ago

I don't speed read, but I have still read 3 different ~400 page books in a single day. What I find really strange is just how slow some people read where some people actually speak faster than they read which seems odd to me.

btilly• 17 years ago

Speaking personally I find that my reading speed varies greatly depending on what kind of material I have been reading lately. If I've been reading light material that I don't have to pay attention to details on (sci-fi/fantasy is a good example), then my overall reading speed on other kinds of material increases. If I've been reading serious material like a math textbook, then I slow down.

Speaking from experience when I read quickly it feels like I'm "pipelining" stuff. Normal people read a bit, process, integrate, then read some more. I am able to read, process, and integrate in parallel at different speeds. I'll get to the end of my reading, and internally I am not done the material. This lets me read much more quickly.

As an illustration let me describe the one time I measured my speed on a long piece of work. I have a habit of reading in the bath, and one day in high school I began reading Clan of the Cave Bear at the beginning of a bath. I got sucked in, read the whole book, then finished the bath. My mother wondered where I had been all day. I told her the story. She didn't believe that I could have done it. She asked for a summary of what happened. I couldn't give it and explained that it usually took a day or so for me to properly digest a book like that after I read it. She really didn't believe me.

So as proof I gave her the book, told her to open to a random passage and start reading. After a couple of paragraphs I proceeded to tell her what was going on at that point in the book, had her hand me the book then quickly found the paragraph. After repeating several times she was convinced that I read the book.

She then took a count of pages, a count of lines on pages and a count of words/line for several lines then estimated how many words the book was. We calculated how long the bath was and it turned out that I had read the book at over 900 words per minute.

Oh, and the next day? My brain had finished integrating everything and I was able to give her a plot summary for the book.

Locke16892• 17 years ago

I will definitely support this. I didn't even know that people normally take time to process after reading. When I read, I never stop, I simply digest while reading the next paragraph.

I just flipped through a book that I had read before and my reading speed is also pretty high at 1,000-1,200 words per minute.

gaoshan• 17 years ago

I am a voracious reader and always have been. As a kid I was the one in the summer reading program who was 3 or 4 times ahead of the next highest kid in number of books read. By 4th grade I was testing at the "post-collegiate" level in reading comprehension. I never speed read, have never tried to speed read and do not even understand why one would want to. Reading books about how to speed read seems to me to be like reading books on how to swim. Just start reading stuff you are interested in. Period.

So my thoughts? myth vs reality? I say pointless.

kjell• 17 years ago

I kind of like reading ‘slow,’ or at my natural reading pace. I've experimented a bit with reading faster and it kind of takes the leisure and enjoyment out of reading for me. Probably because I haven't practiced it enough, and as I do it'll come more naturally and leisurely.

But what helps me most is to try and read not letter by letter (as we did while learning to read as kids), nor word by word (as I think most people do once they learn), but phrase by phrase. Or at least chunk of words by chunk of words. Whatever the line width and word size of what you're reading has to be taken into effect: but I find reading goes much faster when I only let my eyes focus at {1,2,3,4,…} distinct points per line, absorbing a group of words at each point instead of sliding along the line one word at a time. Maybe this is a stupid tip and everyone already does this. And I haven't read the speed reading literature, this just seems like common sense, which when mixed with diligent practice, can develop valuable skills.

jdlegg• 17 years ago

I've spent a lot of time thinking and learning about this. Speed reading doesn't seem to be a "myth" exactly, but you are making a big tradeoff between speed and comprehension. There isn't a magic technique that can enhance your ability to retain information, which is arguably the most important part of reading.

Proper reading conditions are very important for reading and comprehension ability. Despite the difficulty of achieving this, an extremely quiet environment is best. You just cannot focus, absorb and retain the information nearly as effectively if you're reading in front of the television or while listening to music.

I also don't bother reading non-fiction/educational material until I'm actively trying to implement or learn the technique/language/software/idea I'm reading about. This is because I forget the information too quickly to make it useful in my job unless I use it right away. Reading on a regular basis is important to keep the skill up, though, so I read lots of fiction and magazines with long-form content (Scientific American, The Atlantic, NYT Sunday Magazine). The New York Times is the only newspaper I read because most others are severely lacking in depth and quality. This isn't a political persuasion, it's an intellectual/taste concern.

Re: the so little time problem. If you set aside regular reading time, even 20-30 minutes per day, it's amazing how fast you will be finishing books. If you can read a page per minute (~average depending on the text). That's a 200-250 page book every two weeks.

phr• 17 years ago

I think there is some truth in the advice to avoid sub-vocalizing. It seems to improve my reading speed, but does take an effort. The other day I was reading something that included a word I have some trouble pronouncing (sorry, don't remember what it was now). I noticed I was pausing over that word every time I encountered it, trying to solve the puzzle of how to pronounce it. When I made an effort to stop that, I sped up my reading quite a bit.

danek• 17 years ago

often i'm a slow reader because a lot of times i'll get stuck on the issue of how something is pronounced, lose focus on what i was doing, and start daydreaming.

i also seem to have trouble reading when music with vocals is playing in the background.

but when i turn off the music and make an effort to stop sub-vocalizing, i read a lot faster and understand more.

strayrocket2• 17 years ago

I just released an iPhone app called QuickReader (http://www.quickreader.net). It is a "speed reading eBook reader" that trains you to read more words at once (expand your field of vision) and track properly. It employs the same techniques as are taught in the better speed reading courses. You take a speed reading test and then adjust the reading guide from 100 to 2000 words per minute. It comes with 21 full-length eBooks, so it doubles as an eBook reader. You can watch a demo video describing how it works at http://www.quickreader.net/videos or find it on the iTunes app store at http://bit.ly/GetQuickReader.

gnosis2• 17 years ago

Take a look at "Reading Rate: A Review of Research and Theory" by Ronald P. Carver

http://www.amazon.com/Reading-Rate-Review-Research-Theory/dp...

The conclusion is, basically, that speed reading courses don't work.

You can teach people to skim at a faster rate than they'd read with maximum comprehension and retention. And you can teach people study skills, such as how to summarize salient points, and take notes.

But all these skills are not at all the same as what speed reading usually promises, which is to drastically increase the rate at which you read with full comprehension and retention. According to Carver's book, it can't be done, at least not drastically past about the rate you'd naturally read at the college level.

Check out the book for a much more comprehensive explanation and analysis.

araneae2• 17 years ago

I learned to "speed read" on my own as a kid because I am very plot oriented and would want to find out happens at the end of a book as soon as possible.

Yes, you do miss details, and yes, you don't remember things as well. It's fine for fiction, where enjoyment is really the only point, but I would never do it with anything technical.

gnosis2• 17 years ago

That's called skimming. It is possible to learn to do that, and it's a very useful skill. Actually, I tend to use it for technical works much more than I do for fiction.

In fiction I read at my slowest rate, to get the most out of the book that I can, as I don't want to miss a bit of atmosphere, plot, characters, or dialogue. I most enjoy reading at a relaxed, leisurely pace.

With technical work, I can skip around to get a good overview, and jump to just the parts I'm most interested in or with which I'm having most difficulty and slowly read those. But that's not a very good way of reading fiction, unless you're just reading the book for a book report or something where you don't care whether you enjoy the book or not.

araneae2• 17 years ago

* that's not a very good way of reading fiction*

It's not a good way for you to read fiction. It is, however, how I enjoy books the most.

Sapient• 17 years ago

I would just like to point my fellow hackers to ZapReader. http://www.zapreader.com/

Basically it will take text supplied (either pasted in or a link) and flash up either words or sentence fragments at a chosen rate. Using this, I am able to read long articles at around 800wpm, with pretty good comprehension since its not really skimming.

johnwatson11218• 17 years ago

I really liked the demo of this, I wonder if any of the new e-readers will support this in the future. Come to think of it this would be a good app for either the iphone or android.

strayrocket2• 17 years ago

Check out the QuickReader app on the iPhone (http://www.quickreader.net/videos).

throw_away• 17 years ago

http://spreeder.com is another version of this.

Krismadden• 17 years ago

I was a slow reader for a long time, and after going through several disappointing "Speed Reading" programs, I decided to research the topic more academically.

Here is some clips from Alice Krumian's 2000 dissertation and related research books:

"Professor Javal, a French physician and psychologist at the University of Paris, was one of the first researchers to note the actual character of the eyes' movement in reading. In 1878 he published the first account of systematic observations of eye movements during reading. His work stimulated other researchers to work on similar problems, and by 1908, when Huey published the first important book on the psychology of reading, a considerable amount of information had already been gathered. Huey acknowledged that Javal deserves more than anyone else the credit for making the initial discoveries in the field and for initiating the considerable number of later studies." -Alice Krumian "Speed Reading"

"Some readers could read visually while whistling or doing other motor tasks that would hinder inner speech ... But although there is an occasional reader in whom the inner speech is not very noticeable, and although it is a foreshortened and incomplete speech in most of us, yet it is perfectly certain that the inner hearing or pronouncing, or both, of what is read, is a constituent part of the reading by far the most of people, as they ordinarily and actually read." -W.B. Secor (pp. 117-118)

"The eye readily falls into a brief motor habit of a certain fixed number o f pauses per line, for a given passage, independently of the nature of the subject matter. And the ease of the formation of motor habits seems to be one of the characteristics o f rapid readers as contrasted with slower ones"

"The fact of innerspeech forming a part of silent reading has not been disputed, so far as I am aware, by anyone who has experimentally investigated the process of reading. Its presence has been established7 for most readers, when adequate tests have been made" (p. 117) - E.B. Huey The Psychology and Pedagogy of Reading (1908)

"O'Brien (1926) discovered a high correlation between the ocular motor control and the comprehension of a passage.'The immaturity of the reader manifests itself in the large number of fixations per line and the narrowness of the visual span'·(p. 94). He went on explaining that just as pulse rate serves as a reliable measure of the heart bea4 so does eye movement serve as the external counterpart of the internal conscious process, i.e. reading efficiency. 'The widening of the visual span and the lessening of the duration of the fixation pause are the factors which serve as reliable indices of the growth in rate of reading" (p. 94)." -Alice Krumian - Speed Reading

There's a lot more, but the research shows that accelerated reading speeds of around 2,500 words per minute are possible with substantial comprehension, through the elimination of subvocalization, the lessening of eye fixations and the increasing of one's eye span.

Taking the information from the research I conducted, I put it together into a six-week coursebook called, "learn to speed read". It's free to read and download on Google Books, Scribd, and my website: krismadden.com

The bibliography's about 20 pages long, at the back of the book, so if you're interested in reading more research on the topic that would be a good starting place.

Enjoy.

-Kris Madden

Ask HN: Speedreading - myth vs reality? your thoughts.

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