Obama's view on schools

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obama-schools5-2009nov05,0,3477080.story

by cadalac • 17 years ago

13 17 17 years ago

tokenadult• 17 years ago

"For one thing, Obama called for the abolition of 'firewall' rules, which presently prevent many schools from judging teacher performance based on student performance."

I suppose in most cases those rules are consequences of contract provisions insisted upon by teacher union representatives.

http://www.amazon.com/Teacher-Unions-Sabotage-Educational-Re...

roundsquare2• 17 years ago

Maybe. If so, then the policy being suggested here would be to disallow these provisions (or at least discourage them). Maybe something like increased pay for loss of "firewall."

tptacek• 17 years ago

I'd be pissed right now if I was Malia. What the hell, Dad?

btilly2• 17 years ago

Can you think of a clearer way for him to let his daughters know that bad grades are unacceptable in the Obama household?

In fact it makes me wonder how he motivated her to improve her grade to 95%....

roundsquare2• 17 years ago

But letting his daughters know that isn't the only criteria he should be using. Not embarrassing her in public is useful other criteria.

Agreed though, I would like to know...

joshhart• 17 years ago

So this is the exact opposite of no child left behind? Sweet!

btilly2• 17 years ago

In general I think these changes are better than nothing, except for the exceptions where they work out horribly.

http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/39809 mentions the interesting example of a teacher who teaches Russian immigrants. No matter how well she teaches, she's got the huge disadvantage that her students start with no proficiency in English and so are guaranteed to do well. Pay for performance rules are a strong disincentive for taking on tough challenges like that.

Still the current system is so horribly broken that I am personally willing to put up with breakage like that.

mynameishere• 17 years ago

Yeah, teachers know who the dumb kids are and this kind of thing will add repulsion to the mix.

bokonist• 17 years ago

In any sort of sane pay for performance system the teacher would be judged based on improvement from when the student entered their class. ( not that I expect any sort of sane pay-for-performance scheme to be implemented)

unalone2• 17 years ago

This sounds great, but for the fact that most of the things students are being reviewed on are meaningless bullshit. How are teachers being measured? By AP scores? Grades overall? Because as a still-fresh departure from grade school, I'm pretty sure 90% of the stuff I was tested on was bullshit. My teachers knew that and let me get away with poor grades so I could learn what I wanted to, and that's where I learned. If every teacher's now being taught that they should be pushing their students to get good grades, I predict we won't see much good come out of this initiative.

dschobel• 17 years ago

You learned how to jump through hoops and perform passable work on things which didn't necessarily interest you.

In other words, real world training.

unalone2• 17 years ago

If that's how you view the real world you're in the wrong line of work.

dkarl• 17 years ago

Way to lead by example, Obama. It's kind of pathetic, but this story (assuming the right people hear about it) could actually open some eyes. His kid gets a C, and he doesn't just get angry at the teacher and demand a better grade. What a concept! Too many parents don't believe in education or skills; they think education is a sham, schools just anoint "winners in life," and public schools have no business discriminating when they hand out tickets to the middle class.

patio11• 17 years ago

I don't think I'll ever agree with him on policy, but if he convinces the country that going from a C to a 95 is "acting black", I will happily anoint him my favorite president ever.

wsprague• 17 years ago

I know people who work in social services who have noticed a change in the last generation. Before, you would think twice before telling a working class parent that the child misbehaved because the parent might discipline too harshly. Today, the parents always assume the kids are right when they come home whining about how mean the teacher was. Don't know which is better or worse....

andreyf• 17 years ago

There's no such thing as public education. Education happens to exactly one person at a time. There are some things that you just have to do by yourself. And there’s no such thing as compulsory education. Education is something that each of us gives to ourselves or allows others to give us. [1]

We need a culture of intrinsic ambition and excellence - among students, among teachers, and among professionals. Focusing on fake heuristics - grades, standardized tests, gold stars - only teaches one to cheat, not to personally excel.

1. http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0208f.asp

pmichaud• 17 years ago

The main argument against this is that teachers might be penalized for teaching in rough schools instead of lily-white. middle class, suburban schools. I don't see a reason the system couldn't be set up to normalize the schools based on what the metrics turn out to be.

I guess each school would get a performance index that would act as a coefficient for the teachers there. E.g., the metric is a test score, and one school consistently scores near the national average, while another is 10 points lower. The teachers at the lower school would have their evaluation bumped 10 points because of the index. That way we'd be comparing apples to applies.

It could actually incentivize teachers to move into more difficult schools if the index were a little over done so that they were rewarded slightly more for the same effort. Their effort would theoretically move the school's average into line with the national average, then they'd be evaluated/paid the same -- they could then move on to the next problem school, and improve that.

Obama's view on schools

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