4chan vs Scientology: really?

http://www.wired.com/culture/culturereviews/magazine/17-10/mf_chanology

by knieveltech • 17 years ago

85 39 17 years ago

dkarl• 17 years ago

It's the opposite of Gandhi's nonviolent resistance. Instead of acting as a moral foil, they act as a moral mirror. Both methods force to the surface judgments that people have already made but have avoided acknowledging. When people read about "a man slathered in Vaseline and covered in pubic hair and toenail clippings storm[ing] in and... desecrating a place of worship" and find themselves wondering which side they're on, they can't deny that they have little respect for Scientology.

skolor2• 17 years ago

the last of the epic trolls

Really, wired? My experience with 4-chan has generally been that whatever you say about/of/to them, they'll try their damn hardest to prove you wrong. Give them enough time, and order will rise out of the chaos that is Anonymous. Sure, it will eat itself, and descend back into the depths of madness eventually, but something will rise back into its place.

I would bet, given another decade or two Anonymous, whether it be the 4-chan brand or from other meeting place, will do something that tops even this. As the Internet and networks in general are rising more towards the public eye, the memembers of Anonymous, who are mostly young, technologically adept individuals with questionable morals, will gain more and more relevance. Like it or not, there is a draw to Anonymous, and where there is technological interconnection it will exist and thrive.

unalone5• 17 years ago

I'd bet they top themselves within a year or two. The chans may have peaked in size, but what that means is the people who are most interesting there are going to be finding new ways to branch out to avoid newfags. I'd bet they consolidate and end up with something even more intense than 4chan was back in the glory days.

skolor2• 17 years ago

You seem to be far more versed in the ways of 4chan. I have spent a few hours there a few times, long enough to understand the draw and that it wasn't for me, and I have several friends who spend time on the various boards there. Would you mind explaining a few things?

I've seen "chans" refer to several things, both the various boards (/b/, /g/, /r/ and the like), and referring to individual people. Which way are you using it, and why (as opposed to using it the other way)?

Peaked in size I understand that 4-chan servers tend to be very heavily trafficked, to the point that many people have said "DOS attack on 4chan? Is the internet on?" or something of similar meaning. Is this what you mean, or does it have to do with some kind of critical mass relation between Anonymous contributors and how much Original Content can be created/consumed (I would assume there is a peak point for that, although I don't have the slightest idea where that would be).

news ways to branch out I was under the impression that 4channers held a generally negative feeling for any other boards, tending to call them "imitators" and the like. What makes you think that a sufficiently interesting person could change that, considering the anonymous nature of 4chan (thus making it impossible for any person to actually back up how interesting they were, historically).

Back in the glory days I see this often, although it seems to be more a state of message boards in general than 4chan, although it does seem particularly loudly voiced on 4chan. Would you mind elaborating what those glory days were like, sense it certainly seems to me that some of the most impressive things to come out of 4chan have happened recently (Chanology, the Times poll rigging, and the like).

Sorry if I read too much into what you said. I've wanted to ask someone about their 4chan experiences for a while, but none of my friends want to admit to much, so I was hoping the semi-anonymity of HN would help a little.

aarongough3• 17 years ago

Anonymous's video proclaiming their intent is truly epic. It's interesting to note the lack of coherence and describable goals in cruise's video when compared to the Anonymous video.

There's a Scientology church near where I live, and every time I see Anonymous members outside it I make it a point to stop and tell them that I think they're doing a good job...

I always take heart when I see people standing up against something they think is wrong, regardless of their effectiveness.

netsp3• 17 years ago

I don't really understand what it is about Scientology that pisses people off that much. You seem to be able to rally people against it more easily then you can against skinheads.

What gives?

blhack• 17 years ago

They're an easy target and they are very weird. Watch some of the videos of dissenters interacting with them. It's bizarre.

anr• 17 years ago

Info here:

http://www.xenu.net/

"in respect and honour to all victims, and those who dare to stand up for them".

jonny_noog• 17 years ago

I think one of the main things that pisses people off about Scientology as opposed to skinheads (to use your example) is that no one really thinks that skinheads and their associated organisations are legitimate despite any efforts to make themselves seem so. No one is clamouring to give skinheads tax exempt status as non-profit/religious outfits.

Scientology tries to maintain a veneer of legitimacy while in reality, being pretty damn shady. By and large, I suspect they seem far more hypocritical to Anonymous, et al than many other questionable fringe groups, such as skinheads. If there's anything that really sets off activism on the Interwebs, it seems to be hypocrisy.

Plus have you actually read about the beliefs and teachings they push while demanding that people pay for the privilege of receiving them? Have you read about the "Sea Org" and so on? Whacky stuff.

joeyo4• 17 years ago

It is indeed epic. The aesthetic of Anonymous has always strongly reminded me of William Gibson's Panther Moderns. I don't know if that is just an example life imitating art or Gibson being prescient, again.

http://everything2.com/title/Panther+Modern

aarongough3• 17 years ago

Great comparison... I love Nueromancer, every year or so I have to go back and read it again because I remember how good it is...

Anonymous reminds me of something like that too, almost like a force of nature. One minute there's seemingly normal people everywhere, the next they're all wearing Guy Fawkes masks and making a ruckus.

JCThoughtscream2• 17 years ago

It should be noted that the 4chan macroculture's rather divided as to whether or not Anonymous as protestors should really be considered Anonymous as representative of the *chan culture as a whole. 4chan's founder, Moot, has expressed a rather large level of disdain for the protest movement.

ivanstojic• 17 years ago

Even suggesting that Anonymous by and large takes any interest in what Moot thinks shows just how misinformed you are. There's more to a spear than just it's point.

gloob• 17 years ago

This is rather off on a tangent, but it's rather entertaining watching people try and discuss the nature of Anonymous. I don't think there are any two people who have exactly the same perspective on the thing. They almost always end up completely talking past one another, heh.

JCThoughtscream2• 17 years ago

Suggesting that a segment of Anonymous /doesn't/ treat him as a figurehead is possibly equally misinformed.

Actually, the only informed statement to make about Anonymous is that there isn't such thing as a capital-letter Anonymous. Considering them the funhouse-mirror version of Iain M. Banks's Culture is closer to the truth than otherwise.

pyre4• 17 years ago

Though the in-joke is that Anonymous is a 'hive-mind' it really couldn't be further from the truth. It's just a large collection of people. Sometimes certain 'movements' gain a critical mass needed to manifest themselves, but that's about it.

gtt• 17 years ago

Is Moot scared of 'Fair Game' policy?

dfranke• 17 years ago

I don't see why he would be. CoS's fair game tactics are pretty much identical to what 4chan griefers do to their targets for the lulz. The only difference is that the CoS can use lawsuits for harassment, while channers can't afford to do so.

kingkawn• 17 years ago

this link sent me on a 2-hour bender. thank you.

knieveltech• 17 years ago

If it only took two hours, it wasn't a bender.

4chan vs Scientology: really?

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