Ask HN: Review my classroom web tool, Eduset

http://www.eduset.com/

by fuzzmeister • 17 years ago

56 70 17 years ago

byoung22• 17 years ago

Definitely a good start. Lots of teachers don't want do deal with mastering a learning management system like Moodle or Blackboard. What I don't see is a compelling reason to pay $5/mo for something I could accomplish with a class blog or facebook page. Are there plans to allow interaction between students? Grade management? Online quizzes? These would be great value-adds to justify different pricing tiers.

fuzzmeister22• 17 years ago

The goal was certainly to target teachers who aren't willing or able to put in the time and effort to learn a full-fledged LMS.

I agree that $5/month is a slightly hard sell right now, although there are certain parts of Eduset (such as assignments) that cannot be easily accomplished with a blog. In order to fix this, we are actually in the process of implementing every one of the features you described. Soon, students will be able to post content to their classes (if the teacher allows it), making classes more collaborative. Students will also be able to turn in homework and take quizzes on Eduset, and teachers will be able to grade that work.

As for pricing tiers, does anyone have thoughts on which of these two options would be better?

1) The current model, where all features are provided free for one class, while $5/month is charged to create an unlimited number of classes.

2) The model the commenter above describes, where certain features are made pay-only.

brandnewlow• 17 years ago

Isn't $5 so low as to undermine the value you're offering? I paid $5 for a cheeseburger today at lunch.

I'd look to offer something in the $30 range as your first paid tier.

joez3• 17 years ago

Free for one class seems interesting but how would you distinguish between their classes? What happens if a teacher just put all their students on the one. I think you don't mind getting it to some people for free.

byoung22• 17 years ago

Another possible model is X number of students free, and per-student pricing after that.

psyklic• 17 years ago

I would vote for an institutional subscription model. It might be a hard sell for individual teachers (often likely out of their own pockets), but I bet you could sell the value to institutions which employ teachers.

vyrotek3• 17 years ago

With each semester a teacher would have a new class right? Would it be possible to perhaps charge a one time fee for each class that is created instead of a monthly fee?

teuobk• 17 years ago

Haven't tried the actual product, but the site design and execution looks professional and trustworthy.

raptrex• 17 years ago

1. Slideshow view or whatever you call it where you can press "next" or the right side of the image to go to the next screenshot. I hate clicking to "minimize the screenshot" then clicking again to zoom to the next screenshot

2. Maybe zoom in on that email message since it may give the impression you have to use a gmail account.

3. Page of features and screenshots

4. DEMO ACCOUNT WITHOUT SIGNING UP. No one likes signing up for anything unless they have to. Just have a static version or give them a demo account with full access and every hour or so, have the database be restored to normal

zaatar• 17 years ago

Yes, the demo account is crucial; a lazy effort would be a screencast (flash-based?). I certainly want to give this a whirl, even though it would not directly help me, but rather, friends of mine who are professors or teaching assistants. But I'm not about to register, activate an account, and then populate it with bogus info and bogus students burning an hour of my time ... the entry barrier is too high :/

fuzzmeister22• 17 years ago

I currently have a video walkthrough posted on the left side of the page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ-WCIKVbRc). Is that the kind of thing you're thinking of, or something more in-depth?

I'll look into the technical aspect of setting up demo accounts, I am beginning to come around to the idea.

fuzzmeister22• 17 years ago

I'll definitely put #1-3 on my ToDo list, thanks. As for #4, my current strategy is to provide one option and one option only to the user on the home page: signing up. I believe I got the idea for this strategy from 37signals. Does anyone have any insights as to whether this works in the real world?

jlees2• 17 years ago

Another option is 'lazy signup', as demonstrated with some YC startups like posterous. Get the user starting to use the site and only then ask for an email address, username, password etc.

My hunch is that in the real world if it's "signup or die" most people choose the latter.

joez3• 17 years ago

Why the monthly plan? I know subscription is the holy grail because people set it and forget it. But are you implying teachers should cancel it during the three summer months if they aren't teaching?

And do teachers really pay for two months and then go oh... sorry kids but I realize this isn't going to work and cancel it? I assume once your on one LMS your stuck for at least the duration of the semester. Maybe a 30 day free trial is better, even sixty. If Eduset is really amazing, which it could be, then it'll become such a critical tool that they can't just switch off midway of a semester.

I'd also want to see it in action. If it is a LMS, what better way to demo your LMS than to create a Eduset page on how to use Eduset. Have quizzes, videos, homework assignments... etc.

fuzzmeister22• 17 years ago

That's a very helpful observation, thanks.

The problem I actually ran into there is a liability one. My payments provider, Braintree, informed me that allowing yearly payments for a web-based service presents liability concerns, as if Eduset was to close, Braintree could be on the line for any refunds demanded by customers. Thus, they say they advise against new companies charging yearly. Does anyone have any experiences with overcoming this hurdle?

Also, given the feedback I've gotten from some other commenters, I'm going to add a demo account feature.

callmeed2• 17 years ago

"Does anyone have any experiences with overcoming this hurdle?"

Ask them if they can hold some of the money in escrow ... or go with a different underwriter that will allow yearly subscription (but at a higher rate).

You could also just do one-time payment for the year and require them to re-purchase.

Might even look into accepting POs from schools. If you're into cashing checks :)

patio114• 17 years ago

Does anyone have any experiences with overcoming this hurdle?

Switch you subscription term from "per month" to "per academic year". Alternatively, characterize the payment as a one-time license or use fee, get a year of positive history with Braintree, then switch to a subscription model and give your existing customers free-for-life accounts on it. (This is equivalent to a lifetime subscription option, but offered by stealth and limited to early adopters.)

neovive• 17 years ago

How is working with BrainTree?

yannis• 17 years ago

Seeing it in action without having to register is important (and not on video), perhaps sandbox to play.

On price IMHO it would be a plus to also offer a 'school option'. It maybe easier and can capture a wider audience.

vyrotek3• 17 years ago

Looks clean and simple. I definitely see the Facebook/Twitter design influences. I have a sister who who teaches High School Biology who might use such a thing.

But, I worry that she wont be interested in the price. As byoung already mentioned, there are a lot of other (free) services out there that facilitate basic communication already. My sister is someone who lives on Facebook and would probably look to use that first if she could. Extra features that byoung mentioned could be the key.

Some local college grads here just launched http://www.instructure.com I haven't played with their product but it looks similar. Its never a bad idea to check out any potential competitors to see how they are addressing the market.

fuzzmeister22• 17 years ago

Instructure looks like a very good product. Slightly more college-focused and LMS-like than Eduset, but certainly similar.

I'm definitely working on more features to differentiate from generic platforms that could be used (Facebook, Wordpress, etc). As for the price, do you think that it would become justifiable to someone like your sister once more features are added, or do you think that she and other teachers like her are unwilling to pay for any sort of classroom web tool?

vyrotek3• 17 years ago

I sent her the link just now and we talked a bit. Turns out the school district currently offers a very basic website for teachers to interact with students online.

This is the site they gave her - http://barnes.myteacher.dvusd.com which was created using http://manila.userland.com.

As you can tell, its nothing fancy really. She mentioned that students can create accounts and interact on her page but that its too confusing and so she just uses the basic features.

To quote her: "I can have the students create accounts on there so they can post stuff too but I haven't played around with any of that stuff. Its really confusing so if he could market it to school districts instead of making us use this stuff then that'd be great. Its really dumb, a lot of teachers just use google sites instead cause its easier. To make my site look like that I had to go through and edit the html code"

It seems like she is definitely looking for something different but expects the school district to purchase it. Otherwise she'd rather use Google or Ning. I hope the feedback helps :)

sachinag3• 17 years ago

While I applaud your initiative, I cannot believe that teachers would feel comfortable using something made by a single person who just graduated/will graduate? high school this year. You can keep your name, but I'd recommend taking out your relative youth.

Also, I'm always a big fan of competitive analysis charts, especially if you're competing on price. Here's ours: http://www.dawdle.com/selling/index.php/fees/ I will say that I'm with Brad and $4.99 a month feels like you're selling yourself short, but that is $60/year. Perhaps make a couple more tiers right off the bat to try to nudge people higher?

Lastly, I wouldn't say "if your students can use Facebook, they can use this" with a screenshot of Gmail. That shows a lack of attention to detail.

fuzzmeister22• 17 years ago

I'll give some more thought to revealing my age on the about page (I'm now a college freshman, by the way). Any specific reasons you say teachers would be uncomfortable with it?

I'm hesitant to add more plans at the risk of creating too many options for users, but I am looking into the possibility of institutional accounts.

Also, I hadn't fully realized the disconnect between that screenshot and subtitle, thanks.

sachinag3• 17 years ago

My sister is getting her PhD in learning and memory research, and specializes in how kids learn (and she has her teaching cert), and her experience matches mine: teachers hate being told there's something new, young, and better. If they discover it for themselves, great. But positioning yourself as the new young buck on the scene is shooting yourself in the foot. Frankly, I'd try to get an advisory board chock-full of NEA and AFT reps.

subbu• 17 years ago

I'm hesitant to add more plans at the risk of creating too many options for users

Read 'The Truth about Relativity' in Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely. He explains this problem really well.

A quote from that chapter: most people don't know what they want unless they see it in context. We don't know what kind of racing bike we want—until we see a champ in the Tour de France ratcheting the gears on a particular model. We don't know what kind of speaker system we like—until we hear a set of speakers that sounds better than the previous one.

Wilduck• 17 years ago

I do like how professional the site looks, however, it took me a while to find out what it would look like to use eduset. What I did find to be very helpful was the video showing linked from "click here to take a tour of eduset". The content of that video was informative, but not at all what I expected. I would place it more prominently on the page, not right above a screenshot (I was surprised those two elements were unrelated) and maybe give it a new name ("See eduset in action"?).

Props on the highly visible "Try it for free" buttons.

No props for the opening line of your faq "Eduset is an online classroom communication tool designed to make teachers' lives easier." Try something that says a little about what eduset actually DOES. While the product certainly does look easier than maintaining a personal webpage, it would be better to state how it makes a teacher's life easier, rather than just saying it will.

Similarly, in your about page, I would suggest moving your first sentence to the end of the paragraph (or at least to right before you talk about contact information.

fuzzmeister22• 17 years ago

Thanks, I'll make the video more prominent and make it clearer what it contains.

You're right about the FAQ, that line is pretty much marketing-speak. I'll work on re-writing both that and the about page.

I have to say, you have 37signals to thank for the green button idea.

zemote6• 17 years ago

This is almost an exact replica of my startup http://edmodo.com which is completely free for multiple groups (eduset charges for more than 1 group), and already has decent traction with 87,000 registered users.

fuzzmeister22• 17 years ago

Jeff, I have to say, I'm kind of disappointed you chose to say that it is an "exact replica" publicly. As I said in my email to you some time ago, I had the idea for Eduset having never even heard of Edmodo, and only discovered Edmodo about halfway through the process of building Eduset. While I was certainly stunned at how similar the ideas were, I decided that the classroom microblogging space was big enough for more than one player, so I continued work.

Further, for the record, the inspiration for Eduset came from Pownce. When I first tried the Pownce closed beta, I realized that its model would apply perfectly to the classroom setting.

Edit: Also, note that Edmodo is planning to add paid features this year (http://www.edmodo.com/blog/2009/06/07/thank-you-for-a-succes...)

Edit 2: I'd like to emphasize again that I sent Jeff a long and detailed email about this exactly 3 weeks ago, containing everything I've said here and more. He confirmed to me that he received the email, but has yet to reply. For him to then take the debate public here, without bothering to talk to me personally, is unnecessary and absurd.

zemote6• 17 years ago

I actually have proof you signed up for Edmodo in October or November of last year, so you new about Edmodo almost a year ago. The classroom micro-blogging space may be big enough for two but we are more motivated than ever to own the educational micro-blogging space which we are already doing a very good job at it. I'm just letting the Hacker News users the similarities between your service and ours and ours is free unlike yours and we have a business model too :) We put our money where our mouth is and making the Education community a better place by offering the best free micro-blogging we can for individual teachers.

markbao• 17 years ago

Jeff, Will has already explained to you multiple times in both in public and private that Eduset is not a copy of Edmodo and both products were developed independently of each other. Kindly lay the fuck off and quit advertising your startup at every mention of Eduset.

Will and I both developed a teacher classroom web interface independently of each other. The difference is that I didn't lay claim to the idea and become a dick about it.

BTW, your comparison of Eduset and Edmodo is like a comparison between the Zune and the iPod. You might as well accuse Classleaf of similar 'exact replica'-tion.

Xichekolas• 17 years ago

Moreover, even if he did copy the idea... who cares? Ideas are a dime a dozen... whoever executes best will win... assuming there is a winner. Seems like a space that several players could comfortably operate for quite a while.

Also, accusing someone of copying your site is rather ballsy considering that both sites look like repurposed Facebook clones. At least the eduset guy changed the color from blue to green. ;)

(Not that there is anything inherently wrong with that, but you don't exactly have a unique style that got ripped off.)

fatdog789• 17 years ago

After having tried it, edmodo sucks balls. Huge, bloody, salty, donkey balls.

I guess being first mover/original isn't the best thing.

Stop spamming your lame little startup every time a superior competitor pops up.

mattiss• 17 years ago

Did a quick search for Eduset. From the blogs I have read this dude Jeff just spams "Rip off of Edmodo", "Not impressed", etc. everytime somebody posts about this thing.

I have no relationship to either, but pretty scummy practice IMO.

jlees2• 17 years ago

Behaviour like that isn't going to help either startup.

whalesalad• 17 years ago

SchoolRack has been around for years and is doing ~10K daily visitors. Both of these services do a lot of what we do... We're not bitching! :) Bring on the competition! The Education space needs some attention.

http://www.quantcast.com/schoolrack.com

zemote6• 17 years ago

Whalesalad, totally agree, Education startups are lacking. I'm very impressed with the new Schoolrack release. Hey we are getting close to you guys :) http://www.quantcast.com/edmodo.com

oxygen2• 17 years ago

I like the design and the core concept. My suggestions:

1) The video was helpful and I would out it right under the "Try it for free" tab

2) In terms or pricing strategy, I like the idea of giving away one class for free and then adopt a per class pricing at around $30. I am sure there would be some teachers out there who would just use their one class slot for all classes but then you will always find 10% of your customers getting more than what they paid for. Lets worry about the remaining 90%

3) Make sure you keep track of what school are these teachers from. As soon as you see >5 teachers from a school registering, you might want to solicit an institutional model

4) I, as a teacher-customer, am not sure how will it work for students. What would they see and how? A video will help.

fuzzmeister22• 17 years ago

1) That's good to hear, I'll try to make the video more prominent.

2) What's your reasoning for the $30 price point, as opposed to something lower? Also, having more than one class in a slot would cause some confusing overlaps in homework due dates and such, but you're right, there will always be some people trying to do it.

3) That's a good point, I'll look into a database of schools that I can put behind an AJAX picker.

4) I worried about that when I made the tour. I'll work on tacking on short segments from a student's viewpoint at various points in the video.

oxygen2• 17 years ago

I would check if teachers think about their job in terms of workload per class or per month and work backwards from there. The real question is: how do I get to $X/teacher?

patio114• 17 years ago

Your core customers will happily pay $35 for a bingo activity which they'll use once. You're offering an application which revolutionizes the way they work, and charging $5 a month.

Thus, the usual pricing advice: charge more.

NoBSWebDesign• 17 years ago

"Eduset completely changed the way I interact with my students." - High School English Teacher

Would be much more effective with a name (and even a picture). My first impression was that you made that quote up. Here's a good tutorial on using testimonials: http://www.marketingexperiments.com/improving-website-conver...

fuzzmeister22• 17 years ago

Working on it.

Ask HN: Review my classroom web tool, Eduset

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