Enforcing Type Returns in Ruby with Pedant

http://superjared.com/entry/introducing-pedant-ruby-library-will-annoy-you/

by 0x44 • 17 years ago

13 13 17 years ago

swombat• 17 years ago

I'm not sure how useful this would really be in practice. It seems that it would only be useful to debug obscure bugs if it was used consistently everywhere. However, littering your code with these calls would make it a fair bit more dirty, for a very small reduction in debugging time (apparently - that's not event 100% clear... perhaps having to read all that extra code when looking for a bug will make it take longer anyway).

I'll pass on this one, myself. Ruby's best used by people who have become capable of not shooting their own feet without language safeguards.

kscaldef2• 17 years ago

There are situations where it's very useful. I've used similar modules for code doing financial calculations. Because Ruby has weakly typed numerics, it's quite easy to inadvertently coerce a value to Float. Once this happens you will start seeing, as you say, obscure bugs from floating point errors. The location where the bug manifests can be entirely different from the location in the code where the type coercion occurred. Placing type constraints on functions involved in these calculations seems quite warranted.

I wouldn't use this module on every function you write, and it doesn't seem like the author is advocating that. But strategically enforcing the expected types in critical portions of your codebase can be valuable.

blasdel• 17 years ago

It would be 'weak' typing if Ruby ran an integer routine on a raw mantissa|significand value. Ruby is effectively doing type-checks on every operation, and that can never be 'weak'

What you're complaining about is that it has a numeric tower, but does not have anything like type-classes.

FooBarWidget• 17 years ago

I've been writing Ruby for years now and only a very tiny portion of my bugs are caused by type errors. I don't see how this is useful in practice.

arohner2• 17 years ago

I've found similar systems to be very useful in certain situations, including: refactoring, rapidly changing code bases, and code that doesn't have enough unit tests.

Yes, all of these situations could be improved by having more unit tests, but systems like these have an extremely high bang-buck ratio. They're extremely cheap to put in, and they some bugs.

gnaritas2• 17 years ago

If you want strong type guarantees, don't use a dynamic language. If you're able to not make such silly mistakes and enjoy the power and expression of a dynamic language, then use them, you won't miss types much at all.

I use Smalltalk daily and such type errors are so rare as to be virtually non existent. If you pay attention to what you're writing, you don't make such silly mistakes often, and when you do you usually notice it immediately when you try to use the code you just wrote.

Bolting a home-brew type system on a dynamic language just seems rather pointless, if you need it, you're not really ready to be using a dynamic language.

superjared• 17 years ago

I would probably never use Pedant for a library that was never touched by other developers. Just like tests, Pedant can prevent others from breaking something (or at least bring attention to it). Ruby's implicit returns make this situation more apparent.

antonovka2• 17 years ago

I find the inference that you must be a dolt ("If you're able to not make such silly mistakes ...") to want an type system to be both insulting and positively ridiculous.

A powerful type-system provides tools to concisely express business/logic constraints and automatically enforce those constraints across the entirety of your codebase.

Advanced type systems are a powerful tool to enable you to write less code that is guaranteed correct. It's not a seat belt for morons like myself who apparently lack your mental caliber.

jballanc• 17 years ago

I don't think the implication was that you "must be a dolt" if you feel the need for a type system, just that you probably shouldn't be writing in Ruby. I don't expect C to handle memory for me, I don't expect Java to interface cleanly with the underlying OS, and I don't expect Ruby to enforce type declarations.

I think the point is that, if you feel like you're missing something by not having types enforced in Ruby, then you're probably using the wrong tool for the job. Sure, I could probably turn a claw hammer around and use the nail-puller to turn a screw in a pinch, but I'm not going to run a carpentry business like that.

Enforcing Type Returns in Ruby with Pedant

Related Stories