Why It's Hard for Women to "Lean In" in Tech

http://poweredbypardees.com/hard-women-lean-tech/

by martindale • 12 years ago

8 21 12 years ago

parennoob2• 12 years ago

In a piece that laments how women are not safe at tech conferences,

"He then proceeded to offend me in my own language. I was so horrified I slapped him, which literally made everyone else in the room stop talking and stare at me."

I have no idea why this author thinks that bro culture somehow justifies her physically assaulting someone at a tech conference. Then lamenting about, "I know there must be other women struggle in these situations [sic]" makes it even worse.

[edit: I agree with the other commenter, this is an ill-written, lopsided, and clickbait-y article, won't be a loss if someone flags it off the front page.]

intortus• 12 years ago

I knew this would be the first comment. Isn't it disturbing that sexual harassment is so common that instead we're more offended by the act of self-defense?

jasallen• 12 years ago

I'm male, but if you keep following me around some place after I've told you to stop, to the point of six times, and then verbally berate me in any language, I promise, you are going to be physically assaulted.

parennoob2• 12 years ago

Instead of informing security or the conference organizers? Are you sure that beating him up is the optimal course of action? Perhaps the guy has Aspergers, or a behavioural disorder. It's funny how inclusivity is suddenly being thrown out the window here.

It is never prudent to assume malicious intent on someone's part and physically assault them -- and then follow up with a piece about how this means that you are somehow the sufferer.

pardees8• 12 years ago

Hey, I am the author. Thank you for reading my blog post. You are correct, I was 22 at the time and I felt so unsafe I did not know what to do other than physically assault the man. I'm very jealous that you feel so privileged that this situation would never apply to you.

mynewwork• 12 years ago

This is the type of pointless click-bait, flamewar-starting article I used to flag, but I appear to have lost my ability to flag articles. Has the karma threshold changed or was my account specifically stopped from flagging by a mod?

dang• 12 years ago

This is off-topic as an HN comment. You're welcome to send such questions to hn@ycombinator.com, as the guidelines ask.

pardees8• 12 years ago

Hi I'm the author. I'm sorry my article offended you. Can you please tell me why you are so angry?

higherpurpose• 12 years ago

Just because it’s difficult doesn’t mean there aren’t strong women on the front lines!

Why do the women in tech have to be "strong women"? As long as you need "strong women" in tech, I think that implies the environment is still hostile to them, and only the fittest survive.

Jugurtha2• 12 years ago

When she says strong women, I think she means a woman who won't abandon the field she's in and never go to another conference just because a guy hits on her.

lotsofcows• 12 years ago

Because, currently, women are in the minority.

We're well aware the environment is hostile, that's why these articles are prevalent.

Fortunately, people keep raising awareness. Over time, it will require less and less strength to survive as a woman in our male dominated arena. Eventually the average woman will be happy working in a tech startup and we can all be happy that the world has grown up a little.

ChikkaChiChi• 12 years ago

More needs to be done to raise awareness of assholes that create a hostile environment, not to separate us into a classification based on genitalia.

We're all humans and those of us who aren't complete shitheels know how to work together and even encourage people that are somehow different.

If your mileage varies, shame those that are making you feel that way.

pardees8• 12 years ago

Thank you!

pardees8• 12 years ago

Hey, I'm the author!! I've been involved in the tech industry for about 4 years and I've seen many women leave during that period who told me it's due to the hostile environment. It makes me very sad that they don't feel empowered to say anything, or sometimes get silenced when they do stand up for themselves. Hopefully one day it won't be a problem!

Jugurtha2• 12 years ago

Point 1:

Yeah, someone is an asshole to you at a conference.. Never attend another conference and leave completely the field you're in.

A teacher has been an asshole to me once, I dropped out of school. Do you realize how childish this is?

A manager has been an asshole to me, not only did I leave the company, but I changed the field I work in. Just because of that manager.

Point 2:

Most VCs are men. Most company founders are men. VC's don't get businesses targeted towards women.. So why aren't there women VC's who would get businesses targeted towards women?

If Point 1 criticized Bro Culture in the Hackdom, I don't think there's a bro culture in VC's, and I certainly think there are women with money. Why don't they fund companies, and companies ran by women?

Paul Graham wrote something about founders with thick accents. Some people might find it racist, but it's just the way it is. We can either cry about it, and whine about how the industry should be more caring and catering to people with thick accents, or they can learn to speak English!

(PS: I'm not a native English speaker, so don't tell me I'm a xenophobic douchebag or a racist. Doesn't keep me from being fluent in 5 languages I use on a daily basis, though).

3. Safety..

Alcohol + late night + gender imbalanced room = sounds like clubs in ghettos I don't go to.. Though I won't go to the club and ask the owner to change his club: I just won't go there, and choose a better club.

In other words: If you don't like a place, just don't go.

And Pardees, you are not the only one getting hit on by men. I'm a man, and I do get hit on by men. Some even propose to pay me. I do get hit on by women, too. And some proposed to pay me, too. I'm not shocked by either. When there's someone insisting, I just avoid them. I don't view them as predators(regardless of gender), I view them as people trying to get laid, which is okay by me.

Point 3:

Yes, and double yes ! That's the attitude. Women need to "woman up!".

The practice of demanding equality and yet, demanding a double standard can't continue.

I'm sure there are women who are well off, why don't more of those start a VC company?

Do I need to bring back the History of Silicon Valley and how it all started? I come from Electronics Engineering, so people on the Software side might have a more recent referencial for started than Fairchild and all: They didn't like it, they left, asked for funding, started their own.

Get inspired, people, get inspired ! Don't whine. Fight and make shit happen !

jmj42• 12 years ago

We can either cry about it, and whine about how the industry should be more caring and catering to people with thick accents, or they can learn to speak English!

Or, we can work to change the culture that views an accent as detrimental. We do that by talking about it. You (incorrectly) call it whining, I call it keeping awareness up.

Alcohol + late night + gender imbalanced room = you average hack night. That this also resembles your ghetto club is precisely the problem.

pardees8• 12 years ago

Thank you for your comment!

pardees8• 12 years ago

Hi Jugurtha, thanks for taking the time to write this comment about my article. Please find my comments below:

Point 1:

For your example of quitting school, you are making the assumption that the tech industry has the same welcoming environment as academia for women. I can tell you that is wrong.

The same argument can be applied to your second example. At most jobs (not startups) there are harassment policies in place so I know who to complain to if my manager makes a move on me. At hackathons, these policies are not always in place. At the time, I didn't know I could complain against that man. I also wrote this blog post for my friends and they know the whole story. I apologize for not writing it, I will go back and edit my post. The man that made that comment is an angel investor in Boston and NYC. He has invested in some of my friends' startups. I was mortified that he treated me in that way and I was afraid that if I said anything I would be ostracized and have my career ruined if I said anything. My friends showed me this wasn't true.

Point 2:

Most women don't know they can have that as a career option. There are women who are working towards this vision, and we need help from experienced men to help us succeed.

I disagree with Paul Graham's statement. There is no official language in the U.S. and French is actually the language of business. English is not my first language, and though I do not have an accent, I am perceived to have one because I pronounce my name the correct way. We need to stop putting our own perceptions on each other and work together to make an industry that works for all.

I am not whining, I am talking about my experiences and this is the only way for us to learn about each other. Silencing those of us who are unhappy is not the answer. Give us the space to contribute just as much as our white and/or male counterparts have.

On Safety

At a club I can say something and that man is taken away by security. That is not always the case in the tech industry and that needs to change so we feel safe. I do not attend conferences for the entertainment of the men around me. I'm here to learn just like they are. I'm sure you get hit on by men, but are you afraid to say no because they may rape you and that is worse than just being okay with it? Do people call you a bitch or a tease when you say no? Though I could be wrong, I doubt that you have the same fears I do in the same situations.

Point 3

This is how we get inspired and this is how we fight. It has taken me almost 2.5 years to have the courage to speak about my experiences. I do realize now that my post could be seen as very negative towards men and I apologize for that. I'm going to work on a more positive post soon :)

skwirl• 12 years ago

Only 20% of AP CS test takers are female, and in three states (Mississippi, Montana, and Wyoming) not a single female sat for the test. Female CS graduation numbers have been falling for decades, since long before "brogrammers" and hackathons and frequent large non-academic conferences were a thing (at least to today's extent).

While I'm glad attention is being given to the terrible behavior of a small number of men in tech who have no social skills to speak of, if you really want to talk about the ratio problem, you have to talk about how to get girls into tech when they are children.

pardees8• 12 years ago

Hey, I'm the author. Thank you for reading my blog post. I agree with you that getting girls interested in technology when they are younger will help with the ratio problem; however, we do need to give attention to this small number of men in technology because they are the ones who make this industry so hostile for women. If we do not address this problem, then the efforts in getting girls into tech when they are children will be undermined by this aforementioned environment and those girls will leave the industry.

Why It's Hard for Women to "Lean In" in Tech

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