The Daily WTF maliciously infringes Programming Praxis trademark

http://programmingpraxis.com/2009/08/13/the-daily-wtf-maliciously-infringes-programming-praxis-trademark

by igorhvr • 17 years ago

38 30 17 years ago

tamas• 17 years ago

Not a trademark.

alex_c2• 17 years ago

Is this a registered trademark? (I poked around the USPTO search form a bit, and couldn't find anything resembling "programming praxis").

I know copyright kicks in automatically, but is there such a thing as a non-registered trademark, and does it carry any legal weight?

carbon8• 17 years ago

As I understand it, trademarks need not be registered:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/doc/basic/register.htm

mrkurt• 17 years ago

Flagged this because it's not a trademark. While he might have a legal case due to first use, and be able to trademark it now, he doesn't currently have a trademark. Bad title, no biscuit.

Upvoted because it sounds skeezy as hell.

sp332• 17 years ago

He's not talking about a legal trademark, he means his "trademark" phrase has been co-opted by TDWTF.

alex_c2• 17 years ago

He's talking about legal threats and "confusion in the marketplace of ideas".

Definitely sounds like there's some confusion going on.

johns• 17 years ago

Anecdotally, shortly after The Daily WTF gained popularity I emailed Alex to suggest starting a sister site for non-programming IT related WTFs and he tried to poo poo the idea saying he didn't think it would have enough content, etc. Without support of the Daily WTF, it was a lost cause so I gave up on it. Shortly thereafter, he started a section on the Daily WTF site for non-programming stories.

anigbrowl• 17 years ago

The argument from TDWTF that 'it's too late to change it now' is pretty much an admission of guilt. Lawyer up, spend a few hundred on a C&D and then register your TM.

Seiwynd• 17 years ago

This story is summed up very well by a comment on the page made by sorryoldman - "It sounds like this: “You had her first all right, but I slept with her and she’s way too hot for me to give up now. So bugger off and dont come looking for her. She’s too sexy and she’s mine now.” I hope this last sentence puts things in persepctive."

sfk• 17 years ago

He can trademark his site name, but it would be ridiculous to forbid the name "Programming Praxis" as a header for a column or subsection of another website. It's just too generic.

ErrantX2• 17 years ago

Yes agreed. But if the section is identical in theme to that of the Programming Praxis blog I think he has a legitimate point (or at least has some rationale for making the point)

metachris• 17 years ago

Trademarking the generic title "Programming Praxis" seems a bit over the board. There are too many trademarks -- everywhere! To me, this seems to be contradicting the open-source and free knowledge spirit!

As one commenter in the original article put it: "He’s a prick. You’re a winey bastard. Move on, yo."

chrismeta• 17 years ago

Yeah, I know what you mean. I talk about this a bit in my blog at www.newsforhackers.com

jcl2• 17 years ago

Or, more to the point: http://hackernews.com

ajkirwin• 17 years ago

Wow, that guy sure does have a stick up his ass, doesn't he.

lincolnq• 17 years ago

alex responded on proggit

http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9a7zr/programmi...

cruise022• 17 years ago

He's responding on the blog itself. The user that posted that on proggit is a brand new account, so I don't know if that's really him.

ajg1977• 17 years ago

Since "Programming Praxis" is not a registered trademark then it would likely be a long and costly battle to legally force The Daily WTF to cease using it. (Common Law trademarks do have rights, but it's not nearly as clear cut).

That said, if the emails are accurate I do think The Daily WTF is behaving incredibly poorly and they've just lost this reader.

micks56• 17 years ago

Trademark rights arise once the mark is used to identify goods in the stream of commerce.

Registration gets you two things: 1. The scope of your mark applies beyond your geographical area. 2. Registration on principal register is constructive notice to the nation. It creates nationwide coverage and removes defenses of good faith and lack of knowledge.

If "Programming Praxis" is not registered, then Daily WTF can asset good faith and lack of knowledge defenses. I don't think that the geographical limitation issue has much weight on the internet. Those would be the only differences.

Registration also puts a nice, convenient stake in the ground of who was there first. I don't think that will be an issue here.

cruise022• 17 years ago

I think the prior agreement between The Daily WTF and Programming Praxis would make a lack of knowledge defense difficult.

DanielStraight2• 17 years ago

Two things. One, if you don't bother to get legal protection for your "trademark", don't complain if people "steal" it. You can't have something stolen from you that you never owned. Get over it. Two, generic terms should not be eligible for trademark in the first place. Especially, no phrase of the form adjective-noun and no compound noun should be elgible for trademark.

theBobMcCormick• 17 years ago

Registration is not required for a trademark in the US. http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/doc/basic/register.htm

DanielStraight2• 17 years ago

Nor for copyright, but having copyright does not guarantee legal protection for copyright. If you can't prove that you have it and had it first, you may as well not have it at all.

The site you linked to says quite clearly that you should register to get:

""" # a legal presumption of the registrant's ownership of the mark and the registrant's exclusive right to use the mark nationwide on or in connection with the goods and/or services listed in the registration; # the ability to bring an action concerning the mark in federal court; """

So in other words, if you don't register, you don't have these things. Yes, you have a trademark, sure... you just can't do anything about it.

tlrobinson• 17 years ago

Alex seems to have some reading comprehension problems. In nearly every email Phil mentions his desire to keep his blog as separate...

"You and I have similar objectives: you want to extend your already-successful brand by offering something new to your readers, I want to grow my new blog."

"I like the idea of having a Programming Praxis sub-section on TDWTF, and I also want to keep my blog at programmingpraxis.com."

"May I ask a favor? Can you please include somewhere in the text of the exercise a link to my blog?"

"First, programmingpraxis.com will continue to exist in roughly its current form, as a stand-alone web site with two exercises per week, no matter what happens with Programming Praxis exercises at TheDailyWTF."

"Regarding linking: If Programming Praxis is going to become a regular weekly feature on TheDailyWTF, with at least some original content, I don’t see the problem with putting a link to programmingpraxis.com somewhere obvious."

Alex constantly ignores this until the end when he says:

"I don’t want to come across as abrasive or inconsiderate, but we started this conversation on the premise of joining forces, and I’ve reiterated that intent several times. My understanding has been that, if our test(s) proved successful, then we’d combine blogs; if not, then you’d continue with your blog, and I would continue with mine."

jcl2• 17 years ago

And if he was operating under the assumption that the first few articles were just "tests" (as he refers to them repeatedly), why is it suddenly so hard to change the name of the section?

According to the e-mail log, he introduced the new "programming praxis" section name mere days after Phil asked him to stop using the term. That strikes me as needlessly antagonistic. He could have avoided the whole issue by simply picking a different name at that point, but he instead chose the one name that would sabotage the work of his former collaborator.

While I'm sure TDWTF will triumph legally, I can't help think that the incident will influence their relations with any future collaborators.

CodeMage• 17 years ago

It's astonishing to see how many comments on the blog are not only hostile, but rude and hateful. I guess I'm naive and overly optimistic, but it always surprises me to see the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory [1] proven in practice...

[1] http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/

ErrantX2• 17 years ago

Alex is quickly (rightly or wrongly) coming off as a "bit of a dick" in this. On the Internet you can live or die on your reputation - right. Surely the logical approach would have been a "sorry dude, ill change it, misunderstanding"

And of course the cynic in me is saying; well programming praxis will be getting a shed load of new publicity now :)

Mike2239• 17 years ago

Let’s see if there’s an apology coming from Phil now that Alex has changed the category name (and after he gave a reason for the delay) and whether it receives as much attention as the attention*ring post on the site.

greyfade• 17 years ago

Wonderful. More drama. The Internet needs more drama. The babies need their attention.

The Daily WTF maliciously infringes Programming Praxis trademark

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