Ask HN: College business model?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=739464

by jonsen • 17 years ago

4 12 17 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Regularly we see posts regarding higher education considering deflation of educational value, questioning the return value of tuition investment, etc.

We often see good business advise here. Do you have any visions of alternative business models for higher education in the modern world?

What would it cost to run a school with lecturers fully dedicated to teaching?

In 2007 we were two CS lecturers trying to start a private software engineering college in one of the smallest countries of this world where you had to move abroad to get a CS degree. Lots of interest among the local businesses looking forward to hire well educated software engineers. Graduates abroad were far from all inclined to return.

We managed one course in discrete math in a rented classroom. Then funding negotiations stalled.

TallGuyShort2• 17 years ago

I may be the least qualified person to be giving you advice here, but one thing that jumps out to me is that your first could was on discrete math. If your local business wanted to hire software engineers and you're a very small country, perhaps you should begin by focusing on something more practical and general. Doing so would bring a more immediate benefit to your investors. Then once you had some basic courses in place you could begin offering higher-quality education, and more theoretical classes.

jonsen6• 17 years ago

I get your points, thanks, but one thing we never wanted to comprise was quality. An education is often once in a lifetime, so I think one deserves the best possible.

TallGuyShort2• 17 years ago

Sorry, quality was the wrong word. I don't mean to say you should the quality of your teaching, I mean you should focus on a more practical subject rather than something that you may see as a subject taught at "the best schools". Let me use food as an analogy. I see discrete mathematics as a spice. Yes, it's essential for a complete gourmet meal. But why offer a spice before the main staple? Sure it's a high-quality spice, but you're trying to sell it to people who don't have bread.

Honestly, if I need software engineers in a small country, and you asked me to invest in your school, I'd withdraw all funding the second I found out your first and only (at the time) class was on discrete mathematics. To me that seems completely irrelevant to what your investors need.

michael_dorfman2• 17 years ago

It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with your model; you just need to continue your funding negotiations.

If you've got two lecturers, what are the major expenses? Salaries, and rent for the classroom? How big is the gap between (enrollment x tuition fees) and expenses? What kind of enrollment would it take to get "ramen profitable"?

jonsen6• 17 years ago

Thank you. I do believe we had a viable model. Perhaps other disturbing factors were too difficult. What interests me is rethinking the educational model in the large maybe catching new opportunities.

michael_dorfman2• 17 years ago

Why did you give up? It sounds like you were on the way to profitability.

If you want to do it on a larger scale, the trick would be to a) sign on sufficient lecturers of sufficient quality, b) obtain the proper facilities, and c) attract enough students. In terms of c), I imagine that it might behoove you to talk to talk to the unemployment office in your country; I know that here in Norway there are a lot of funds available for retraining of out-of-work workers.

oldgregg• 17 years ago

Right now college still has too much residual cachet. New MBAs realize they just got hosed, but high school juniors still obsess over what school they will get into. It will take some time before you have a significant number of people looking for alternatives that they are willing to fund. It's a bit of a chicken and the egg problem.

We probably have to eliminate lectures. It's terribly inefficient. Course content needs to be converted into video clips / scannable web content. Get the best teachers in each field and have them create the course content. Everyone else should just be DIALOGUING with students. Answering their questions, listening to understand when they don't understand something, etc.

In terms of business models, you're lucky you are in CS where degrees don't matter. Medicine and law are in bed with the government so the status quo won't change for a long time.

My Dad was a college president for awhile but didn't like how slow things moved or the pain-in-the-ass faculty. One of the things he is doing now is one-on-one mentoring and it works-- much fewer people, but they tend to really excel in their fields.

You can also think about it this way. If I spend 15k/yr in tuition the bureaucracy takes that vast majority of that. The bureaucracy that provides almost no real value! So imagine if you had 10 students that you mentored for 10k/yr with zero overheard... That would be a great deal for both of you! You send them articles and books to read and then dialogue with them individually or in small groups. This does work but you have to really sell the idea to people of an alternative education.

The problem is that as higher education has become disconnected from reality many teachers simply don't know how to function outside of the bubble, who knows how to solve that one...

jonsen6• 17 years ago

...yes, a hard nut to crack. Solutions has to come from outside the bubble as I see it.

dmillar• 17 years ago

I can't speak for everyone, but in regard to CS, I, and many of my colleagues, learned most of our trade from books, experience, and each other.

I never really found much utility for lecturers in CS classes in college. I learned just as well--if not better--from a good book.

jonsen6• 17 years ago

I learned most on my own too. But that's not for everyone I believe. Some are better off guided. Then there are lecturers and there are lecturers. What I mean is that the scale of performance in lectures varies extremely wildly. And how could it be different. As a lecturer you are often very much on your own. You (hopefully) have good subject credentials and that is what you are hired on. But no one really cares for how you perform pedagogically.

Ask HN: College business model?

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