Your body wasn’t built to last: a lesson from human mortality rates

http://gravityandlevity.wordpress.com/2009/07/08/your-body-wasnt-built-to-last-a-lesson-from-human-mortality-rates/

by quizbiz • 17 years ago

51 37 17 years ago

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thras4• 17 years ago

Senescence is one of the prices of having evolved rather than having been specially created.

It's surprising that we don't work harder on fixing this. 10x what we're spending on AIDS might be a good place for a start. Imagine what humanity could accomplish if the standard life-span was just 200 instead of 70. Imagine what you personally could accomplish.

m_eiman3• 17 years ago

Would humanity really be better off by having individuals living longer? I can see the personal benefits of course, but younger individuals are less set in their ways and thus more likely to come up with the outside the box kind of solutions to problems that we need to solve.

Plus, they're more likely to accept the world as it is now instead of moaning about how much better everything was fifty years ago... (I think there's some kind of statistic or history tracking that has shown that in the mind of society, everything has always been better fifty years ago. I recall reading something about how the young are only interested in partying and fighting - written by a monk two hundred years or so ago).

thras4• 17 years ago

A counter-opinion about generational perspective: http://curmudgeonjoy.blogspot.com/2008/08/strange-mirage.htm...

Choosing limited lifespan to achieve a particular political balance strikes me as a truly bizarre approach.

As far as science...just take care that smart people have as many kids as they ever do, and we'll be okay.

kiba• 17 years ago

Old men will be young men more prone to partying and risky deeds. This will be especially true when all their children grows up.

DougWebb• 17 years ago

Today's "younger individuals" who are less set in their ways used to be the old folks, back when life spans were much shorter. I think if life spans extended to 200, someone in their 50s would be considered to be at their peak of productivity, optimism, and creativity, because they haven't yet been saddled down with the need to provide stability for their family. Risk and reaching for the gold ring is a young man's game, afterall. A 50 year old today can't take much risk because they don't have much time to recover. A 50 year old who can expect to live to 200 can take greater risks, because there's plenty of time to recover.

jerf2• 17 years ago

This entire argument is predicated on the false assumption that you know what being young and healthy for 200 years will be like. We don't. We don't know if old people are "stuck in their ways" because it is an intrinsic part of being old, or if it is because their brain is becoming physically less flexible, and subsequently they rationalize the ways they first learned.

It's also predicated on the assumption that it's actually bad for long-lived people to get a little stuck in their ways. This may not be true either; society is unstable, in the physics sense of the term, what with the constant influx of new naive people. Adding some more "momentum" into the system may be safer and better. Again, I'm not saying this is true or false, only that the casual assumption of the truth is unjustified.

Having 120-year-old youth will be a genuinely new phenomenon, and nobody knows what that means. Preventing such technologies from being used or developed (or even arguing against it) based on such terrible arguments would be a terrible thing to do.

jodrellblank• 17 years ago

Would humanity really be better off by having individuals living longer?

How does it make sense to talk about how 'well off' humanity is outside the context of living people?

manifold• 17 years ago

It's important not to overlook the role that disease still plays in old age. Engineering a standard lifetime of 200 years without improving the current morbidity rates would be an enormous drain on society.

thras4• 17 years ago

Yes. I don't think anybody would wish for another 130 years tacked on to their lifespan if it were all spent in a nursing home.

But, due to the nature of the problem, that sort of thing is unlikely. Fixing old age will necessarily involve making us healthier.

tokenadult• 17 years ago

Imagine what humanity could accomplish if the standard life-span was just 200 instead of 70.

We might find that we can't accomplish much, as older, more set-in-their-ways voters choke off support for innovation in favor of being supported in their old age. (We could give the United States as a partial example of a country where this is already national policy.) Note that I am not grinding axes for young people here--I am probably already more than half-way through my lifespan, and definitely a good bit older than most HN participants.

ks• 17 years ago

If we have the technology to live that long, the quality of life will probably be higher. There might not be a difference between a 150 year old and a 50 year old. The need for special treatment for older people may not be an issue at all.

calcnerd256• 17 years ago

Well, if we were specially created, Gen 6:3 would explain Senescence. No need for you to jab at fundie hackers when it's not what your comment is actually about.

quizbiz• 17 years ago

   "Exponential decay is sharp, but an exponential within an 
   exponential is so sharp that I can say with 99.999999% 
   certainty that no human will ever live to the age of 130."

It pained me to read that. But because we don't know why the equation fits, we don't know that there is nothing that can be done to make it shift. Maybe one day we will talk about life span like a shifting demand/supply curve.

lionheart• 17 years ago

That statement would make sense with the addition of "at our current level of technology."

Locke1689• 17 years ago

(Ignoring, of course, the upward shift in the lifetime distribution that will result from future medical advances)

...

jrockway• 17 years ago

I think 200 years ago, the curve would have allowed him to say something like "the exponential is so sharp that I can say with 99.999999% certainty that no human will ever live to the age of 90."

I am not saying that my generation will be able to live to 500, but I bet that someday people will.

(I am interested in seeing the graph of "maximum possible lifetime" throughout time.)

holygoat• 17 years ago

"You were made as well as we could make you". "But not to last."

sharpn• 17 years ago

The light that burns...

amohr2• 17 years ago

The MIT Technology Review held a contest of sorts, offering $20,000 to anyone who could prove that Aubrey de Grey's "Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence" was "so wrong that it was unworthy of learned debate." They received 5 entries, 2 of which were discarded, and the other three can be found on their website along with de Grey's rebuttal and the subsequent responses.

http://www.technologyreview.com/sens/index.aspx

In his TED talk, de Grey claimed the the first person to live to 1000 may already be alive today.

Not saying I necessarily agree with him, but according to the judges at MIT - TR, it's at least not outside the realm of reasonable debate.

rsheridan6• 17 years ago

Yes, but showing that de Gray's ideas are not "so wrong that it was unworthy of learned debate" sets a pretty low bar. I would disagree with that statement even though I fully expect to be in a grave along with de Gray in several decades.

amohr2• 17 years ago

I just thought de Gray's work was relevant because it addresses the counterpoint to the author's central thesis. The underlying assumption here is that the body has a built-in expiration date that we cannot avoid, but I didn't think it effectively answered the question of when that expiration date actually is.

My problem with the article, I guess, is the lack of a perspective over time. De Gray also posited that the first person to live to 1000 is probably already alive, I'm not saying all of this really makes sense, but it is scientifically feasible and should at least be noted in an article that asserts the opposite.

According to Wolfram Alpha, the probability of living past 100 (in the United States) increased from .17% to 1.4% between 1933 and 2000 and then to 2.4% in 2008. Living past 70 jumped from 45% to 75% to 76% in the same time period. This has a lot of interesting ramifications that I'm not really in a position to investigate, but they are clearly worth addressing.

edit: sources: http://www16.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=life+expectancy+U.S.+...

http://www16.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=life+expectancy+U.S.+...

gcheong• 17 years ago

Too bad Moore's law doesn't apply to medical science, but in any case I'm hoping we'll see some major advances to put in the "cops" arsenal.

Your body wasn’t built to last: a lesson from human mortality rates

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