What is Bezos apologizing for?

http://andreyf.tumblr.com/post/147837007/what-is-bezos-apologizing-for

by andreyf • 17 years ago

10 24 17 years ago

andreyf.tumblr.com

chez17• 17 years ago

I think this article completely misses the point. He isn't apologizing for the copyright laws, he is apologizing for how it was handled and most likely for allowing it to happen in the first place. You can't escape the delicious irony that this whole thing happened over 1984. Literally any other book would have been better for Amazon, it just makes the story that much better. This whole thing goes to show how DRM can negatively effect a consumer, not something Amazon wants to do with their new device that sells DRM protected content.

andreyf8• 17 years ago

he is apologizing for how it was handled and most likely for allowing it to happen in the first place

But it's copyright laws that allowed this to happen legally. How should Amazon decide which legal rights publishers get to keep and which rights they don't? And are corporations the right entity to decide what is moral and what isn't? Would you blame chain manufacturers for slavery, or the laws which make slavery legal?

This whole thing goes to show how DRM can negatively effect a consumer

But DRM is just the mechanism for enforcing what people perceive as immoral laws. If books were removed once-bought in a way without DRM, surely people wouldn't be any less outraged, would they?

arohner3• 17 years ago

>But it's copyright laws that allowed this to happen legally. How should Amazon decide which legal rights publishers get to keep and which rights they don't?

Legally, you can write a contract that says Amazon has the right to break into your house and repossess books they've sold you that they no longer have the rights to. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's good business.

crazyboblee2• 17 years ago

It's not a legal issue. If I bought a paper book, and it turned out that the publisher didn't have rights to the material, Amazon wouldn't break into my home and take the book back. They should compensate the actual rights holder instead. The Kindle is no different. Regardless of the law, customers feel just as violated.

andreyf8• 17 years ago

Amazon wouldn't break into my home and take the book back

...because breaking in is illegal, not because copyright law prohibits it. A remote self-wipe mechanisms which turned all of the pages of a book blank at the request of the copyright holder would be just as legal.

crazyboblee2• 17 years ago

Like I said, he didn't apologize because what they did was illegal. He apologized because it was creepy and intrusive.

pyre• 17 years ago

Right, but I don't think that even the publisher/rights-holder could _sue_ you to force you to return the book based just on the fact that it was an illegally sold copy. _Stolen_ goods that are resold can be repossessed, but that is because they have a 'rightful owner' of a physical item. The publishers aren't trying to repossess ebooks in an attempt to fill their shelves so that the ebooks can be resold...

In cases like this, the 'best' course of action is just for Amazon to eat the costs since it was their mistake and not to punish their customers for it. Instead of just pulling the book and refunding them their money, Amazon could have sent them a print copy of 1984 and/or given them some store credit for the trouble.

Even if there was no reason for Bezos to apologize for action of pulling the book, the fact that the book was being sold illegally and Amazon had to inconvenience its customers in trying to rectify the situation demands an apology. Well 'demands' from a customer service perspective... Amazon is welcome to treat its customer-base like crap, but they'll have to deal with the consequences.

I think it's telling that Bezos didn't really put much content into the apology as to which parts -- specifically -- he is apologizing for. He could just be apologizing that the company didn't do more to compensate the affected customers per my suggestion above.

{edit} Furthermore, you say '...because breaking in is illegal, not because copyright law prohibits it,' but so far as I know copyright law does _not_ grant rights-holders the ability to repossess illegally produced copies from unsuspecting purchasers. And the way you state this is rather disingenuous. You seem to be implying that copyright-holders can take the book back from you, it's just that the 'breaking and entering' part is illegal, so they have to use some other means. {/edit}

gojomo• 17 years ago

Copyright law said the sales of the unauthorized copies were illegal. It didn't necessarily create an obligation for Amazon to use the remote content-kill functionality to "undo" the sales.

Remote content-kill is such a dangerous and abuse-prone capability that even if it is a 'tidy' way to undo a previous mistake, it still shouldn't be used.

The apology indicates Bezos at least at some level understands that.

daleharvey3• 17 years ago

urm, people dont care about copyright laws, why should buying a book be any different from buying a loaf of bread?

but even past that, I am sure if amazon pushed hard enough / paid some money out then they would have been able to convince the publishers to allow the bought books to, stay bought

andreyf8• 17 years ago

why should buying a book be any different from buying a loaf of bread

Great question - a question that would start a debate about the validity of copyright law, a debate which goes back centuries, and a debate where I can see both sides. But nobody is having this debate - they seem to be just taking one side, the side opposite the one hundreds of years legal scholars have taken.

if amazon pushed hard enough / paid some money out then they would have been able to convince the publishers to allow the bought books to, stay bought

Absolutely, they could also push hard enough/pay enough money and only allow material onto the Kindle if copyright owners allow customers to make copies and derivative works of their books. But why should they?

daleharvey3• 17 years ago

that was actually a typo I just edited, I meant buying a loaf of bread vs book.

but even so, 1. I dont see what the length of time to start reading has to do with anything.

2. why should they? because they are a company who needs to serve their customers interests or they will go out of business, thats a pretty compelling reason in my opinion.

ianbishop• 17 years ago

I think the part that really pissed everyone off is the manner which it was done and the fact that, while the illegal copies broke copyright, it isn't Amazon who owns it.

What probably should have been done (and would have been done, if it weren't for DRM/TOS) is that the book be removed from Amazon. Rather than to remove all the infringed copies right from under the noses of Kindle owners and essentially make them realize what exactly they signed up for when they got a Kindle.

arohner3• 17 years ago

> Surely, it isn’t Amazon’s responsibility to judge which laws are moral and which aren’t - that’s what we pay all those people in Washington for.

No. We pay people in congress to decide what is legal, not what is moral.

allyt• 17 years ago

Ah, we're talking about Jurisprudence! According to wikipedia, the dominant theory there is "legal positivism', where "laws are validly made in accordance with socially accepted rules". See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurisprudence#Legal_positivists

quoderat• 17 years ago

For being complete idiots and violating everyone's expectations of ownership? Is that enough?

They've lost my business over this, that's certain.

What is Bezos apologizing for?

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