Work vs Life

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=713705

by live_to_code • 17 years ago

20 32 17 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I recently met this really attractive girl, which causes the following problem.

The people I admire most in life (in random order): Tesla, Lance Armstrong, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, Jim Clark, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, ... all seem to be people who:

() would rather die than fail () had tremendously successful careers (*) had numerous divorces (if they ever got married)

Given that that is the way I plan to live my life (I would rather achieve my dreams and meet random strangers than live with existing friends/family but let my dreams wither), how should I handle this current situation? (Both the girl & I are in our mid twenties).

On one hand, it seems almost wrong entering a relationship knowing that I will value my work more. On the other hand, there is always hope that all will turn out well.

Can HN'ers speak from experience? Those that pursued their dreams first + pursued family life later on / those that pursued family life first and somehow tried to balance it with pursuing their dreams?

Thanks!

vaksel2• 17 years ago

Seems to me like you are putting the cart before the horse. Don't waste your time living solely for the future. You aren't Lance Armostrong or Steve Jobs yet, and you may never become them.

Life is what happens while you're busy planning other things. Don't waste an opportunity.

live_to_code• 17 years ago

IMHO, what differs from those people and the rest of us is their willingness to suffer it out until they succeed.

zimbabwe2• 17 years ago

They were also people who were fascinated in the stuff they became famous for.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that you can work hard at something you don't like and become a legend. Find what you love, what you don't mind working hard at. Do that. If you want your work to be separate from your life, expect cognitive dissonance.

My advice, from life experience: Try everything. Do what feels natural. Give the relationship a try; if it falls apart, then continue with your work. Not everybody succeeds young. Not every girlfriend turns into a wife.

vaksel2• 17 years ago

I don't know the personal stories of all those people you mentioned, but I can guarantee you that none of them passed on relationships while aiming for their success.

The ones who did, most likely didn't suffer, because they were so focused on their work, that they didn't even notice the opportunity.

TriinT• 17 years ago

You have your entire life to pursue your interests and projects. That's not a lot of time, because one single lifetime is not enough for someone who is passionate about various topics and wants to find out more and more about them.

On the other hand, meeting a girl you find attractive and worth spending time with is not something that happens often. As you're still in your mid-20s, you may think that you'll have plenty of chances to meet other good girls. But soon you'll wake up and you'll be 35... and you'll have a different perspective on life.

It doesn't have to be either work OR the girl. You can have both worlds. You'll just decide what the optimal allocation of time is. Of course, if the girl thinks you're allocating too much time to your work, you relationship might not last. If you have the opportunity to be with someone you like, go for it. A stable and healthy personal life is great for one's productivity, and you still have 50 years or so to become a mini-Tesla ;-)

PS: be careful when idolizing athletes. They are done by the time they're 30. Tesla had done great work by the time he was 30, but some of his best work was done later in his life.

BigCanOfTuna• 17 years ago

Seriously dude, all your fame and wealth will mean nothing as you take your last breath. Neither will your friends and family, but there is a better chance they will be around to comfort you as you transition into the void (or where ever you believe are going).

I derive a tremendous amount of courage and strength from my wife, I wouldn't have been able to achieve what I have with out her.

pguerin• 17 years ago

Take both paths! You can have a great relationship AND build your dreams at once! Did Bill Gates divorced with his wife? No. Did it prevent him from pursuing his dreams wth microsoft and his foundation to help poverty?

jacoblyles2• 17 years ago

Plus, chicks dig dudes who have things going on in their lives.

grandalf3• 17 years ago

Beavis is right.

_cbsz• 17 years ago

IIRC, Melinda was a PM at Microsoft and that's how they met. From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3428721.stm:

"He met his wife in 1987 at a Microsoft press event in Manhattan. She was working for the company and later became one of the executives in charge of interactive content."

gruseom• 17 years ago

Bad example. Bill Gates was notoriously work-obsessed. I remember reading about how in the 80s he had a girlfriend who left him because of what he called "8 hour turnarounds", meaning he had to be at work 8 hours after he left it. He didn't get married until he was the richest man in the world. (I think. Wikipedia says 1994. At any rate he was certainly a billionaire by then.)

silvio2• 17 years ago

Your argument is a good example of survival bias. How many people pursue their passion and let everything else in life behind, just to find themselves alone and unsuccessful at the end of their lives. Enjoy the opportunity, see where it goes, and stop looking for excuses to avoid intimacy with other people.

brown9-2• 17 years ago

I think his post is a perfect example, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

silvio2• 17 years ago

Another source for a good explanation, even if long and sometimes self righteous, is "Fooled By Randomness" by Nicholas Nassim Taleb. He's the author of another well known book called "The Black Swan"

pj• 17 years ago

You know, I understand your situation. I was in startup mode and a girl came along and I told her straight up, "My startup is more important to me than a girl. I don't want a girlfriend, I want a startup and I want a business and my #1 priority is making my business work. You are my mistress."

I was totally honest with her. She knew from the beginning what I wanted and I let her decide what she wanted. She decided to stay and "tolerate" my startup mentality. I'm an entrepreneur. I have been since I was too young to work legally and I probably always will be.

She has stuck by my side for over three years now and I am going to marry her -- I hope. You can never predict the future, but through all this, I have fallen in love with her more than my startup and I want to be with her more than my startup and I will be.

I'm no expert in life, advice is all recycled life experiences and my life is different than your life. But really, think about it... a startup is just a peacock feather that will help you be happy with the woman you love and spread your genes and procreate. That's what life is about.

If you find the woman of your dreams, then a startup doesn't matter as much anymore. Your happiness is the goal. What makes you happy? Finding someone you can talk to and love and cherish and be with forever, or a startup you can flip?

Maybe it's the former, maybe it's the latter... you don't even know yet or you wouldn't be asking the question. Give it time, figure it out. Be honest with your partner. Don't expect to be steve jobs or lance armstrong... do you want testicular cancer? Probably not.

Just live life and try to be happy and treat people with respect and honesty and let them decide what they want. If she wants to be with you while you focus on entrepreneural persuits, then that is what she has decided and then she is the one you want to keep around.

If she says, "No, I want you to focus on me and not your company." Then maybe you should let her go if that's what you prefer.

grandalf3• 17 years ago

The problem with many relationships is that people have this idea that there should be compromise.

You mention that your potential mate is "really attractive". If that's her main asset, then you may end up with someone who expects you to compromise your own goals, etc.

It really depends on how you look at love. Some people look at it as though the most loving thing you can do is sacrifice yourself and your own dreams, while others view the highest/best thing you can do to be simply following your own dreams.

In my opinion, both people should follow their own dreams independently, and discuss them occasionally over dinner, etc.

wheels• 17 years ago

This is cargo-cultism at its worst. The way to become the next Tesla isn't to copy his faults. The people on your list didn't get there by having unstable relationships and it's more than a little presumptuous to make start planning your life around being famously successful.

saikat• 17 years ago

Though I agree with you and think it's unnecessary to forego opportunities like this for the sake of your startup, I just wanted to mention that that in a Q&A session with Steve Jobs that I attended, one kid asked him what advice he had for young entrepreneurs. He said a few things, but I remember vividly that he said (paraphrased), "Make your startup your sole passion and goal in your life - you won't have time for a side job or a girlfriend or anything else - you can't love anything more." It seems like he thought having nothing else take up any of his attention was, in fact, part of the reason for his success. I wonder how true it actually is.

kfb• 17 years ago

I think your biggest mistake is thinking you have a choice: I can choose to be consumed by my business endeavors, or I can choose to fall in love with this girl. Neither is the case - you have little control over what consumes you. Presuming you allow yourself sufficient exposure to each, it will likely sort itself out without you needing (getting) to make a conscious choice.

I didn't put either first or second. I worked my tail off on my professional career and didn't end up meeting the right girl until fairly late on, but when I did I knew it and I didn't hesitate to marry her and keep my work in perspective. But had I met her ten years earlier I would have married her then too, and don't think I would have achieved anything less professionally.

wushupork• 17 years ago

on the other hand you might meet someone incredibly supportive of your choice in life. My wife is extremely supportive of my startup endeavors.

You never know what you are going to get. I think I agree you are putting the cart before the horse and over analyzing the situation.

Just go with the flow. Things may or may not work out but if you over think things, you may never find out.

eterno• 17 years ago

Think what you will regret.

1. Building a startup and not falling in love. 2. Falling in love and screwing up a startup.

Though both don't have to be exclusive, I bet 2. is a better choice. Also you have your whole life for startups, wheras falling in love would be constrained to a short number of years.

I think go with the girl and figure the startup thing along.

feniix• 17 years ago

You THINK you value your work more until you have to make the choice. I say just live your life, and don't worry about stuff that didn't happen yet. If you plan too much you lose all the fun.

santacruz• 17 years ago

Take the girl - she could be your destiny - internet will wait

CyberFonic• 17 years ago

I and a million others admire many of the people that you do. You might be lucky and reach the same level or not. Like the lottery you might not win, at least not yet.

When I was presented with the same opportunity, I dated the girl, proposed to her 5 months later. We have been married for over three years and I haven't regretted it.

In fact, she had many very successful people in her circle of friends who have since given me great advice and support that I would have missed out on if I had gone for what appeared (at the time) the fast track.

As Vaksel points out "Life is what happens while you are busy with other things". Just go with whatever is the strongest pull at each decision point. Good Luck !

mightybyte• 17 years ago

The choice shouldn't be an exclusive or. There are women out there who understand and appreciate that mentality. If the current girl is the type that does make it an exclusive or and you really think this particular girl is the one, then you'll have to make a tradeoff. But if staying with her would be a tradeoff, then in my opinion she's not the right girl. The right girl should like and love YOU--the YOU that you described above. In the general case, girls like that do exist, but in the special case of you, sometimes they're hard to find.

dennisgorelik• 17 years ago

What bad things could possibly happen if you start this relationship?

uptown• 17 years ago

You said she's really attractive ... not that she's going to be the person you spend the rest of your life with. Why don't you slow down ... boot-strap your relationship with her with whatever time you've got available ... and see where it (and your startup) both take you. With any luck ... one or the other will take you somewhere. My guess is, once you're there, you'll know which one deserves more of your attention.

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