Westerners so convinced China is a dystopia they'll share anything confirming it

http://qz.com/168705/westerners-are-so-convinced-china-is-a-dystopian-hellscape-theyll-share-anything-that-confirms-it/

by _bfhp • 12 years ago

10 6 12 years ago

Okay, so poorly researched stories and confirmation bias aside, did the author mean to imply that China's air pollution issues are more about belief than fact?

My wife would like to live in China, but every time we look at the PM25 / PM10 for the cities where I can easily get work, it looks genuinely life-threatening - I'm an asthmatic.

icegreentea• 12 years ago

I don't think so. I think the gap between the really shitty reality, and the hell on earth "news" reported is all the author means to point out.

esbranson2• 12 years ago

China is not a dystopia. China has abandoned Communism and adopted a Capitalist economic system with Socialist policies, like Europe and the US, and as a result it is entering what European-Americans consider 19th/20th Century standards of living. The Chinese don't want to accept that they have been living and dying for a lie (Communism), the US doesn't want to admit China is not a failed state.

Chinese citizens have similar civil rights to those of 19th Century European-Americans. Americans have only been able to circumvent "cop immunity" since Monroe v. Pape (1961) and Bivens v. Six Unknown Named Agents (1971). Americans can take such civil rights lawsuits to a bench of regular people, but Europeans must still take such accusations to prosecutors' golfing buddies (judges), if at all. Its almost impossible to convince a jury; convincing a judge is even harder. Chinese and Europeans have similar civil rights protections, in other words.

China and Europe both have freedom of speech guarantees. In China, just like Europe, you have freedom of speech until you say something a prosecutor or cop doesn't like. (The rationalization of this aspect is dizzying.) Most of Europe has traditionally banned political parties they don't agree with; for example, the Communist Party has traditionally been banned in post-WW2 Europe (Germany, most notably), just like China has banned non-Communist parties in practice. Note the US never banned the Communist Party; it only castigated its members in public shaming ceremonies. (California banned display of red flags in the 1920s, but this was overturned in Stromberg v. California in 1931, around the time Hitler rose to power.)

China is a democracy reminiscent of 19th Century European-American democracies. The United States Senate was not always directly elected, just like the National People's Congress. And the United States President and European Union President are still not directly elected, just like the Chinese President and Premier. China is like the US and sometimes allows recall elections (technically); Europe does not. Neither Europe nor China allow what Americans consider to be ballot initiatives (where the people vote on the proposal). Neither China nor Europe elect very many government officers; in the US not only are sheriffs, prosecutors, clerks and treasurers often elected, but sometimes even judges are (for example in California).

And my understanding is that living and economic conditions in China are similar to the 20th Century US. For a select few its great, for most its barely livable, and for many its cruel and usual punishment. And in Europe, China and the US, the Law © is the most expensive book you have memorized but never read, and the education system blunts and rejects political undesirable tendencies, after which your employer (in collusion with your landlord/bank/household registration office) takes over.

Time, CBS News and the Huffington Post are not representative of all Westerners, nor is the Chinese Communist Party representative of all China. American media corporations are just trying to punish China for kicking them out of China. For which I say Good for China.

orf• 12 years ago

You can't argue that Europe has the same freedom of speed guarantees as China, that is absurd. Communist parties are only banned in some countries and it is at their discretion that they are enforced.

I had a Chinese exchange student live with me for a few days in 2008 and my dad asked him probing questions about the tiananmen square massacre. The guy had no idea at all, or at least was too scared to talk to foreigners about it. That's hardly on par with most of Europe

esbranson2• 12 years ago

19th/20th Century Europe and America. Yes, I argue China has the same freedom of speech guarantees as 19th/20th Century Europe. At least. I think we can agree on that.

I also argue discussing democracy in China is like discussing racial and religious supremacy in Europe. You have to be very careful what you say, else you might find some investigators talking with your family and coworkers about your beliefs, or you might find it hard to do business (like your comedy routine) in certain cities. And only if a European government cannot ruin you financially and socially will they arrest you. Like China. Yes, it happens. Like the Chinese, Europeans rarely hear about it, but it happens. Repeat after me: "freedom of speech is not absolute."

devilshaircut• 12 years ago

"Does that mean that accuracy and accountability don’t matter for click-bait pieces about China that “feel” true?"

I suppose this photograph had the opposite effect on me. The moment I saw it surface on my FB feed, I had the immediate, almost impulsive, thought that this had to be a fabrication. I lumped it into the "Pope calls Genesis a metaphor" category.

I don't mean to sound like I disagree with the journalist though. Actually I would agree 100% that "Chinese dystopia" seems to be an over-represented theme in American news media.

Westerners so convinced China is a dystopia they'll share anything confirming it

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